Coupla topics

From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@voyager.co.nz)
Date: Fri 23 Jan 1998 - 01:34:17 EET


Mikko Rintasaari:

On the Elder Races:

>There is a certain logic here, that many of you seem to be forgetting. On
>earth almost all the cultures of old had the consept of the golden age.
>How in times gone by humans were closer to the gods, the light was
>brighter, men were stronger and nobler, and so on...
> The same pattern is very much present in Glorantha, and indeed it seems
>to have been one of the key elements inspiring Greg in his writing.
> The tought of progress, ever onward, is very modern thinking. It comes
>as easy as breathing to us, but to bronze age RW humans at last things
>were better before, not in the future...
> They are older, thus wiser may well apply.

Not really. Christianity has the concept of the Garden of Eden.
Didn't stop some of them from offing older and wiser jews in the
middle ages. Muslims weren't very impressed with both Jews and
Christians because the writings of those cultures had become
corrupt over time so that they lost God's message. The Chinese
scholars were intensely aware of the concept of progress in
their history and likewise the Greeks in their myths. But very
few wanted to give up the use of iron...

Pasanen Panu

Me>> Hmm we should become like the Neanderthals or the Dinosaurs? Elder
>> does not automatically mean wiser by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> Elder races do know stuff human cultures don't, cause theyve been
> around lot longer. They have magics and secrets more primal etc.

Elf: How to commune with mother nature. Big Wow.

Dwarf: You have a point here. But they can be easily stolen.

Trolls: Why would I want eat a rotting corpse?
 
>> How you can continually claim that they are 'put away'
>> is a complete mystery to me.

> Open your eyes, then. Humans occupy about all open land on Genertela.
> Some other races dot places here and there, and mix in elsewhere as
> minorities.

If they mix in then they are hardly 'put away'.
 
>> So where would you have trolls? In the bright open places? For
>> all your railings against the limited imagination of the authors,
>> you have no presented one credible reason why the Elder Races should
>> go outside their preferred living area en masse.

> Then don't get my point.

Before you make comments of this sort in the future, ensure that
you have at least tried to understand the other person's point.

> Why their preferred living areas must be
> so different from human lands? IMO, uz would cheerfully take any
> and all forested and rich lands given half a change. Mostali
> factories could very well be above the ground in some places.

Do you know why most Uz live in barren wastes? It's because
there are wild trollkin eating everything that grows. They

are not forced to the barren wastes, they literally make their
own lands a barren waste even if it was a rich and forested
land before.

As for the Dwarves being above the ground, some of them are
but in remote mountains. The reason why the Dwarves prefer
being underground is that their Earthsense gives them
advantages when combatting other foes. Above ground their
earthsense is stuffed and they are nearsighted to the point
of legal blindness.

 
Me>> In Dragon Pass (Uz, Beastpeople, Ducks, Elves, Tusk Riders,
>> Dwarves, Newtlings and Dragonewts amongst other creatures)?
>> In Prax (Broos, Morokanth and Uz?) Even in Seshnela, one
>> can find Dwarves and Centaurs. I hate to be blunt Panu but
>> this claim is unadulterated bullshit.

> Every encounter with those is worth lots of talk in local inns
> etc. They just don't mix in with the humans, which is my point.

Looks at apple lane where a trollkin collects wood for a human
village. A lot of talk? Looks at prax where encounters with
the morokanth are quite common. A lot of talk? etc.

And you have chosen not to respond to the point (that Stephen and
I have made) that the interaction of the type you suggest (elder
races living alongside humans en masse) poses a great deal of
difficulties. I wonder why?

 
>> What ever gives you this impression. If they are not RW humans
>> than why do we have humans in glorantha?

> Dunno. Say, do many RW humans you know of have magical properties?
> Can their priest call the gods to his aid? There are differences.

Well we have stories and myths and legends where people cast magic
and have magical properties yet they seem to act and think like
RW humans. Also we have people in the RW who perform magical rites
(ie christian priests, shamans, clairvoyants, tibetan lamas etc) for
results both objective and subjective. They on closer analysis are
motivated for passions that are all too human. Furthermore do you
ever perform some ritual when rolling a crucial dice roll? That
according to a gloranthan would be considered a luck spell.

> Exactly. Ever wonder why dragon has to get a cave, when it could
> just as well sleep in a river?

Clue for Panu: Dragons are not Elder Races and do not sleep
in caves. You must be thinking of the Other Game (tm).

> I have said that to meet Elder Races you have to cross a border
> (as Campbell presented it).

So what? To meet the Praxians, one has to cross a border. Yet
I don't see Panu crying in the wilderness about how the lack

of Praxians everywhere in glorantha...

> If someone dares to argue with me on this subject, beware! You will
> find an uu-decoded lead pipe from your mailbox the next day.

O Wow. A mailbomb threat. I'm not impressed. And neither will
your sysadmin, I suspect.

Michael Cule:

>Does anyone think there is a market for a troll gigolo in Refuge?

RuneQuest Companion cites a female uz courtesan who works in Furthest
so it's possible. I think however most of the clients for a troll
gigolo will be found at the docks (Cor! I'm so tuf I even shagged
an uz once!). But whether this was the lucrative market your troll
was hoping for is another matter entirely.

- --Peter Metcalfe

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