Re : Intolerant Theist. (?).... hmmmmmm.

From: Simon Hibbs (
Date: Tue 27 Jan 1998 - 16:46:39 EET

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Apologies if this has reached the Digest before, but it appears not to
have appeared so I'm reposting it.


>Not much to do with Glorantha but Simon Hibbs comments in V5#355
>"Well, since you're obviously an atheist I'm sure you truly believe
>The fact is that the vast majority* of the real-world human species
disagree >with you."
>This implies that you are part of this vast majority, and come over as
>patronising, bigoted, holier than thou twat!

Oops.... sorry!

I realy don't see why you're so offended. Has the term athiest suddenly
become an insult? When I was an atheist, I didn't think so. What is
bigoted about pointing out a simple fact of demographics. Can I help
that? I'm not trying to oppress you, or convert you or any such thing -
that would be inapropriate for a discussion group of this kind. You're
completely welcome to your own opinions, but it was _you_ who said :

>Dunno. Say, do many RW humans you know of have magical properties?
> Can their priest call the gods to his aid? There are differences.

which you made as a statement of fact, implicitly insulting everyone who

does hold religious convictions, in a highly inflamatory and
argumentative manner. Which, I may say, I choose not to take offence to,

since I do respect your opinion. It's a shame you are unwilling to offer

me the same respect.

>Until you can prove, as much
>as science can prove anything, the existance of a divine being (no
>particular religion alluded to here) then I DEMAND that my, and other
>peoples, atheism be respected as equally valid as anyone else's theism.

When have I said, or even implied, that I don't acept your opinion in
good faith? I don't accept it as valid in the sense of being true,
because I disagree with you, but I do respect your opinion and have
never said otherwise.

>The fact that 99% of people believe in a divine being does not make it

Of course not.

>a few centuries ago the vast majority of people believed the world was
>flat, were they correct?


>Prove my belief in the non-existance of a divinity wrong and I'll
>acknowledge I'm wrong, until then shut the fuck up!

But I _havn't_ said you're wrong. I just said that a lot of people
disagree with you........ Well, most of them actualy.

So, it's ok for you to make absolute statements, denying the beliefs of
many of your fellow human beings, but it's not ok for me to point out
that your's is not the only opinion? Well, I'm sorry, but I disagree
with you - and no amount of histrionics will stop me from saying so.

>I apologise to everyone else for this rant and if I've misinterpreted
>Simon's comment then I apologise to him for the vitriol.

er, right.

This kind of discussion has occured here before. You're welcome to
believe that religion is real in Glorantha, but unreal in our world, but

the fact is many people disagree with you. More to the point, Greg
Stafford, practicing shaman and mystic, disagrees with you and Glorantha

is his creation. All I would sugest is that, if you want to understand
the ideas and beliefs that have made Glorantha what it is, you might
find it usefull to bear that in mind.

Right, I think I'll just shut the fuck up.


P.S. I'm actualy agnostic. (ok, realy shutting up now)

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