From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Wed 28 Jan 1998 - 22:14:03 EET

Chris Pearce:

>What happens if a priest attempts to discover mysteries of the faith
>through Divination? For example, Ginna Jar is a mysterious Lightbringer
>figure, but Orlanth knew her. Logically, one should be able to ask
>Orlanth about her. What keeps such mysteries hidden?

He will recieve the recieved wisdom or what everybody has told him.
To find things are different, he would have to go on a significant

Joerg Baumgartner:

>Nick, I'd love to see that detail on the Holy Country after 1625 - apart
>from a very short mention in Minaryth Blue ("Nice land, but too flat") and
>an obscure, unsubstantiated (nowhere in CHDP or any other allegation) claim
>in the Saga that Argrath became successor of Brian in 1628, there is no
>action in the Holy Country any more, and only a few (important) commanders
>and troops from there mentioned in the major battles.

Surely the two details confirm each other? After Harrek and Argrath
made peace (and Harrek was promised something big), the wolf pirates
did not follow up on their planned sack of Heortland and thus Minaryth
Blue notes 'no combat'?

Stephen Martin:

>Peter>And what about Good Ol' Shang-Hsa May-his-name-be-cursed?
>>Obviously proving oneself to be a dragon in the end (or whatever we
>>chose to call it) is not the same thing as being a wise, benign and
>capable ruler.
>Sorry if I was unclear -- I was not counting
>Shang-hsa-may-his-name-be-cursed, because I do not consider him to have
>been a ruler of Kralorela (as I know some people do), and so do not
>believe that he ever became a dragon. I still think he was one of the
>FDR. But I should have made this clear -- sorry.

Given that the current kralori system owes more to the FDR than
to Yanoor's system, I find such distinctions to be in the eye
of the beholder. If you must discount the False Emperor then
you must also discount Godunya.

Also I've noted that after the Dragon's Awakening Shudder, 'The
strongest dragon magic of the New Dragon's Ring grew more difficult
for the non-kralori to evoke and then disappeared, leaving only
their False Draconic powers manifest'. Now 'in 1120, a flight
of true dragons came and exterminated the false dragons, their
prophets, and their followers'. Note that someone big is missing.
The False Emperor.

IMO the Dragon's Awakening Shudder removed the false Emperor
with the effect that the link between the FDR and the true
draconic powers were now gone.

>>Peter Metcalfe thoroughly corrects me of my misinterpretation of
>>Monsters in the West. I admit I am no expert on Western matters, that's
>>just the impression that I got of malkioni, that they are a bunch of,
>>for want of a better analogy, nazis.

>Well, to disagree with Peter, the term krjalki has been used in the West
>for centuries to apply to _all_ the elder races, including elves and
>dwarfs. Not all Westerners hold that elves are chaos monsters, but many
>of them do.

I must disagree here. Cults of Terror says the Westerners applied
the term to the nonhumans they met in Ralios because 'in their
ignorance, much of the army thought that the Krjalki were mutated
monsters who had long sold themselves to chaos.' Yet the Elves were
quite well known in Brithos and in Seshnela at the Dawn (see the Uz
Lore Map). Similarly the Dwarves at Belskan are mentioned in Bertalor's
essay ('The Metals of Acos' in Elder Secrets) as 'immortals' and not

The Chaotic Interlude:

        'In western Genertela, the word _Krjalki_ means _Chaos_
        _Monsters_, yet western manuscripts from every age refer
        to both trolls and dragonewts as krjalki, clearly a
        misapplication of the term.'
                             Cults of Terror p47

Makes it clear that Krjalki is not just a name applied to
anything that looks different.

Hrestol Argenitus who visits Dragon Pass during 700 or so
distinguishes dwarves, elves, dragonewts and even trolls from

krjalki. After encountering mentioning the Trolls at the
Shadowlands (which he describes as 'hated' and 'monstrous'),
he mentions the trade with mostali at Hannand without comment
(save for the translation) before going to Fort Tikand.

        'To my astonishment, the humans were not aided not only
        by a draconic advisor, but also a mixture of different
        Krjalki right out of the Gbaji nightmare!'
                                King of Sartar p183.

So most westerners would not consider elves and dwarves to be
krjalki whereas many of them might consider trolls and dragonewts
to be so. However some can avoid this error although this may
be as rare as an Orlanthi who can distinguish between Lunars and

>>The sedalpists sure seem that way, but how widespread are they, or their
>>attitude in this respect?
>The Sedalpists have nifty spells like With Elf Bow, Smite [Non-Human
>Species], and Poison Troll, so they definitely seem on the anti-elder
>races/nazi side to me.

But the Sedalpists who are the majority of the Malkioni in Umathela
were liberated by the elves against the Fonritans during the Season
Wars. Instead I think their relationship with respect to the Elder
Races is a lot more complex.

Their spells are divine proof of the superiority of humanity over
the Elder Races. The real problem in their worldview is the
Fonritans whom they can't kill without damning themselves. So
an appropiate parallel would be the historical English who know
that they are superior to the Welsh (subjugate taffy) and the
Irish (starve paddy) yet have problems coping with the French (who
are theoretically inferior but refuse to acknowlege the fact).

So the Sedalpists could use inhuman troops because they know they
are able to dominate them if the troops should prove troublesome.

>I'm sorry, I don't understand this. It almost sounds liek you are saying
>that it is a 19th Century myth, that most of the people of the world
>believed the world was flat a few centuries ago.

That's correct.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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