Many subjects (longer than usual)

From: Stephen Martin (
Date: Sat 31 Jan 1998 - 22:27:16 EET

Peter Metcalfe:
>Eurmal? Feeling guilty? He was _forced_ to guide the Lightbringers
>because they knew that he could lead them to the Heart of Darkness,
>the Eye of the Storm. The only time when he did something 'good' is
>that when the Lightbringers were all scattered (Chalana's unhealable
>wound, Orlanth's crisis of leadership, Issaries dumbstruck, Fleshman
>alone, Lhankor not-knowing, Ginna Jar not) and hope was finally lost,
>Eurmal was forced by his very nature to defy the Cosmos and bring the
>Lightbringers back together again.

And I think the key word here is FORCED -- just as each of the other
LBers were confronted with their opposites, and could not deal with it,
Eurmal was forced to become his opposite, too -- he was forced to face up
to his own responsibility as an entity of the cosmos. And this worked in
the _favor_ of the quest, because before this he was NOT a reliable

On the LBQ, everything must become its opposite at some point. Hmm, I had
not considered this -- the LBQ MUST include a trickster, for just this
reason. If the questors don't bring a trickster, there will be no one to
save them when Orlanth becomes weak, Chalana is in constant pain, Lhankor
is stupid, Issaries is a fool, and Ginna Jar (their group spirit) does
not exist. They all become Trickster, so he must become then.

Flesh Man is a possible monkey wrench here -- he is a madman, so
presumably he becomes sane again at this point. However, I seem to recall
that he was killed at some point on the quest (?), so perhaps he does not
face this, and meets them all again near the end, in the Deep Hell. In
this way, he can be seen as the tanist, the sacrifice needed to allow the
quest to continue at some point.

Dave Dunham responding to Patrik
>> Is there anyone who has any ideas or theories about how the
>> Sartarite kolating (shaman) fits in their tribal society as of
>> the 1620's?
>My guess is: poorly. He's probably the hermit who lives in the wilds. He
>may have an apprentice who helps get him food, and he no doubt collects
>gifts from folk. (Possibly larger gifts than the RQ3 rules imply, since
>doesn't necessarily get them often.)

This is supported by the Paulis Longvale narrative in Cults of
Terror/Lords of Terror:

[In the Malia section, after converting a village from surreptitious
propitiatory worship of Malia to reliance again upon Chalana Arroy]
"Hahlgrim left soon thereafter, to seek a shaman in the wilds who could
protect the farmers permanently."

One also needs to remember that the kolatings are not a *distinct* part
of Orlanthi religion, unlike in Prax, where they are specifically a part
of the Waha cult, the dominant male religion in the land. Sure, there are
non-Waha shamans in the Wastes, but probably not a whole lot. As there is
no shaman-specific cult we know of among the Orlanthi, the shamans are
likely to be varied in their Tradition, and less likely to be found
within tribal, clan, or Orlanth-cult practices. If they are outside of
normal society in this respect, they are more likely to live outside of
normal society -- they might live in a clan area, even in a village, but
they would not be part of the clan in the same way that the Wind Lord or
Storm Voice would be.

Peter Metcalfe:
>(although where Shang-Hsa, Yanoor and the False Emperors reside, no-one

Well, since Yanoor went prematurely to the afterlife, without ascending
to Dragonhood as is proper, I assume that he is in the temporary
afterlife. When Godunya dies, he will finally be liberated to the proper
consciousness which was denied him by the God Learners.

It seems to me that such an abdication of power is certainly an option
for the Kralorelan Emperor, at any time. It is damaging to his soul and
the kingdom, but it is an acceptable course of last resort, since a new
Dragon Emperor will eventually liberate him -- no long-term damage done.

This is as opposed to his becoming enslaved or perverted by the GLs,
never dying, and so never releasing himself or anyone else to the next
stage of existence. THAT is unacceptable, and so Saintly Yanoor** fled

>The Worship of the Sun, Moon and Stars has changed under the influence
of >transplanted Lunars into Kralorela.

First of all, what transplanted Lunars?

Second of all, how has their worship of the Sun, Moon, and Stars
_changed_ (considering it is unlikely they had any Moon Worship to
change, and considering I find it unlikely that they worship the Moon at
all, even nowadays)?

If you are using the presence in Kralorela of "Yelm," "Dendara," and
"Eiritha" as evidence that there are Dara Happans in Kralorela, I reject
that idea categorically -- these are not the real names of those gods,

and never have been. It is simply that no one knew better when Genertela
was published. Hell, Eiritha certainly isn't the name of the cow goddess
in Dara Happa or even among the Orlanthi, why suppose it is so in

** Until Godunya-may-his-skin-turn-ever-golder dies, Yanoor is not a
Dragon Emperor any longer, and so has forfeited his honorif. This is one
of the bad but acceptable consequences of his abdication of the throne.

>>An obvious example is Dragon Pass, extensively occupied by trolls
>>the Inhuman Occupation. While they didn't explicitly force trolls
>>somewhere, they did for the most part expell them from Tarsh and

>The Trolls were kicked out by the Dragonewts and not by humans. I
>don't recall Arim the Pauper, the Colymar clan or even the Grazers
>having any problems with Trolls.

While, it is specifically stated in Trollpak/Haunted Ruins that the
Sazdorf Clan was forced out of their home in the Indigo Mountains by
either the Torkani or the Telmori, I can't recall which. But this is a
minor case -- troll dominance was broken primarily by the dragonewts and
the trols' inter-tribal warfare. And by the death of the Only Old One, I
am sure that helped to weaken them.

>>The God Learners are my guess, too, unless the early settlers of the
>>Isles did that - they were sort of Malkioni after all, and knew about

>They weren't Malkioni until the God Learners came. They bought
>the fable about them being Malkioni but this is on par as the
>Romans thinking themselves descendants of the Trojans under Prince
>Aenas or even the Britons under Brutus the Trojan. There is also
>the theory of British Israelitism.

Except, where would these God Forgotters have been exposed to the myths
of Malkion? My understanding is that they have claimed to be Malkioni
since the Dawn, long before there was any contact with the West in
Kethaela. I am of the belief that they represent a very old colony of
Malkioni, who lost most of their Malkioni ways until the contact with new
Malkioni in the Second Age revived these customs.

Ken Jewelzz on Dinosaurs
> There aren't any listed in RQII besides the Bolo Lizard( which isn't
>exactly a dino,as they're described as "dinosaur-like"; though stat-wise
>simular to the Deinonychus ).

Well, this is not quite true -- there were none in the RQ2 rulesbook, but
there were Gloranthan dinosaurs published in Griffin Mountain and
Borderlands. Mention is also made in various RQ2 and RQ3 publications of
triceratops, and in Dragon Pass we also get mention of pterodactyls and
trachodons (3 types of which were in Borderlands).

It is implied in various RQ3 publications that the full range of dinos
exist, though stats for most have never been published (Gateway Bestiary
did have a number). Some RQ3 stats were written for some (probably by
Sandy), but never got included anywhere, probably for lack of space.

There is also brief mentions in relation to Odayla, the Orlanthi Hunting
Gods, that one fairly common form of hunting is digging huge pits in
which to trap dinosaurs for eatin' purposes. Trollpak mentions the
occasional dinosaur (and mammoths!) in Dagori Inkarth. I think there are
occasional brontosaurs in the River of Cradles area, as well as other
creatures. Balazar and the Elder Wilds certainly have their share of
dinosaurs, though I imagine they were more common in the First Age (when
some dragonewts herded them there).

Finally, GRoY and the Entekosiad mentions that there were once dinosaurs
in much of Peloria, but they seem to be extinct now.

Perhaps Sandy would like to share the ones he has, or would like me to
post the ones I have access to?

Nick suggesting an early Cradle-wreck:
>Cradles had magical guardians and defences, so something would have
>to have nobbled these in order to cause a Cradle-wreck. The most obvious
>*big* magic-affecting thing would, of course, be the Sunstop of 375 ST.
>Easy to believe that, if a Cradle were floating down the Zola Fel when
>this happened, it'd have run aground with its defenders "off-line".

Ooh, this is a Way Cool suggestion. And it makes me wonder what other
types of magic in Glorantha went "off-line" during the Sunstop?

Frederic Ferro
>?Would it contradict anything if the Pharaoh's (final) death occurred in

>Earth season, Week of Life in that year 1616? (the Year Ritual should
>logically happen around that date, I suppose)

Nothing published that I know of gives the date. And, considering that
the Lunars say it is Jar-Eel who killed him, and Jar-Eel is said to be an
incarnation of Hon-Eel, who is an Earth/Fertility Heroine of the Lunar
Empire, the date works well from the Lunar Side of things too.

Michael Schwartz:
>>And the process of reading it will cause certain problems in the
>>mentality of the scribe translating it....
>Origin of the Cult of Silence? Any takers?

Probably not, since the Cult of Silence is a Pamaltelan cult which
originated two or three centuries ago. :)

>Frankly, given a choice of "Things Man Was Not Meant To Know", I'd
>imagine most player-characters might prefer the mind-withering
>horrors of the Book of Drastic Resolutions (not the 'zine) to the Purple

>Book of Refuge.

Giving it this title just reminded me of the old pun, "New Writers of the
Purple Sage" -- anyone think Minaryth Purple could have written this book
in a fit of madness some time?

The New Writers of the Purple Sage would then be a group of religious
fanatics who began worshiping the writer of the book, sometime in the
near future say 1640 or so. Eventually, they would be the ones to found
the Londarios Library, also called the Purple Library.

Stephen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #384

To unsubscribe from the Glorantha Digest, send an "unsubscribe"
command to Glorantha is a
Trademark of Issaries Inc. With the exception of previously
copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this
digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to
copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to
archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.

WWW at

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 23:06:00 EEST