Many subjects (long, as usual)

From: Stephen Martin (
Date: Wed 04 Feb 1998 - 07:53:44 EET

Nick says:
>I'd incline to pin the blame on a Trickster Shaman type (one of the
>Raven or Coyote aspects -- or why not Rattlesnake, using his tail as
>a rattle to lure the baby from the Cradle?)

Don't you mean "Raven or Hyena aspects"? :)

>> Could the giant baby still be around, but grown up? Could it be
>> somebody famous?

>If lured away by the "nice, shiny, rattly" Rattlesnake Trickster, I
>doubt it! But if you want her to be someone known in your campaign,
>go for it. Most likely a prominent mountain somewhere far, far away.
>Yes, these are *those* Giants we're talking about: remember, she's
>thirty yards tall as an infant! If she's grown up without the special
>education she was being sent for, I'd guess she was a "monster" by

I don't really mean this very seriously, but could the baby have been
corrupted by chaos? Last I saw, the best giant chaotic monster of the
Wastes was named Cwim....

>I still think
>death by rattlesnake is your best bet: that leaves big bones some-
>where obscure for the PCs to find while rummaging through caves.

Yeah, that does have a nice feel to it. Or, how about this -- she _did_
die as a baby, and perhaps after being bitten by Rattlesnake or gnawed on
by Hyena. Which is why the Condor Crags aren't all that tall or regular
in formation. It is in about the right place along the river, you must

D. Pearton
>We know that there would be a Gold Wheel Dancer on board - maybe once
>he/she/it realised that the baby was no longer on board it decided to
>the cradle (and itself) into stasis until it returned. Now, once you
>onto the cradle you have a GWD that has been asleep since the 2nd age,
>completely out of touch! MAybe it thinks that the PCs are Jurusteli,
>whatever it does could be a great plot...

I don't think that it would in fact be a Gold Wheel Dancer on board. I
think the fact that a GWD can transform into anything, and can be
transformed into anything, is why Pinchining became the guardian of the
Last Cradle. It would stand to reason (IMO) that the Giants would use
different guardians to ensure that some of the Cradles made it, despite
the dangers in the Underworld). And we know that Gold Wheel Dancers were
always rare -- I can't see all of them becoming the dreams of only the
Giants -- there were many races and peoples which needed their dreams
fulfilled by the Gold Wheel Dancers.

I prefer to have each Cradle guardian be unique -- Pinchining was a
"resurrected" Gold Wheel Dancer, another Cradle might have had a captive
Dehori of immense power to cover and hide it, etc.

>And, if the cradle is left relatively intact, maybe the baby
>could resume its voyage down to hell - your PCs could have their own
>cradle adventure without any need for you to have the origional cradle

I think this is a key MGF idea -- if you ran the Cradle once, and didn't
like how it turned out, or if you don't want to detract from the
"official" results of the Cradle Quest, you can use this Second, much
less obstacled Cradle to perform a version which doesn't have to conflict
with continuity. Also, since the Cradle appears out of nowhere, with no
warning to the Lunars or other bad guys, you can run the Cradle scenario
at a much lower power level, allowing less powerful characters a chance
to participate and be the deciding factor, something impossible in the
first version.

Joerg and others point out:
>Not at all. Prax was generally hostile towards the EWF, look at the
>history of Pavis. The Wyrms Friends had been constantly plagued by
>raids, so they called in the Pentan Pure Horse Tribe, and had them send
>Praxians packing. It took the Praxians until 1250 to rid themselves of
>problem completely, and they never ever forgave this affront.

And I just found a source which explains a couple of things. First of
all, Peter Metcalfe (I think) first said (and Joerg later confirmed) that
the God Learners allied with the Pure Horse People, and this is exactly
correct -- check out Pavis history River of Cradles, page 9. The God
Learners allied with the Pure Horse Tribe sometime between 720 and 780.

Thus, the Pure Horse Tribe were _not_ imported to Prax by the EWF -- they
seem to have already been there. They simply transferred allegiance to
the EWF from the God Learners at some point. Unless there were two Horse
Tribes involved?

Nick questions the association of Raven with the Sun Dome Oasis:
> SUN DOME (if the nomads could get to the holy place) -- Sun Hawk,
> Raven, Hyena (I don't remember why), Morning Star, Evening Star

More seriously, I doubt Raven should be summonable at the Sun Dome.
Except, perhaps, as a victim for Sun Hawk to pick on... which would
make some kind of sense, I suppose.

Well, this part I more or less got from Scott Schneider. Basically, Sun
Hawk and Raven are at Sun Dome; Raven and Thunder Bird are at Winter
Ruins; and Sun Hawk and Thunder Bird are at Pairing Stones. It all has to
do with the myths about the Three Feathered Rivals -- Raven overcomes
Thunder Bird at Winter Ruins, Sun Hawk overcomes Raven at Sun Dome Oasis,
and Thunder Bird overcomes Sun Hawk at the Pairing Stones. Of course,
Scott never did get around to writing down the whole myth sequence, so I
don't have much of a clue what it is all about. However, hints of some
ideas can be found in Drastic: Prax in the myths about Thunder Eggs, the
Winter Ruins, and Sun Feathers.

Also, keep in mind that to the Praxians, the Sun Dome Temple is
irrelevant -- "Where the Sun Was Born" and/or "Where Sun Hawk Built His
Nest" are much more important to them than the beliefs of inhuman

Michael Raaterova
>Hey, maybe Knight's Fort is a temple to the Unknown Soldier?

This is an _excellent_ idea. When the lone bastard's corpse was finally
found, it was too dessicated to be identified, especially since all the
metal armor had been looted, the horses butchered beyond recognition,
skin blasted by sand, etc. Missing his scalp probably didn't help,

Richard Develyn again:
>Now I believe Corflu was pretty battered during the Cradle incident,
>however now it's occupied by another Argrath called White Bull (with
>Wolf Pirates and Newtlings). The Lunar army row down to fight him and
>are pretty seriously defeated.

I think the "general consensus" is that the Argrath on the Cradle was The
Argrath, aka Garrath. Argrath White Bull did not go on the Cradle, and
met back up with Garrath either at the Battle of Corflu or the Battle of
Pavis, depending on whose consensus you accept. :)

The Argrath who gets a disease and is saved by Orlanth is necessarily
Argrath of Pavis, since that is whose story it appears in. He is the
"inside man" in the Battle of Pavis, though I think The Argrath snuck
into the city as well, by going through the Rubble.

Dave Dunham wrote a short story for Heroes of the King which is the
source of this last belief -- I think it fits. Garrath is friendly with
White Bull from Before or from Corflu, and he says to wait until the
right time to attack. Then he sneaks into Pavis through one of various
tunnels, and somehow makes contact with Argrath of Pavis. Thus, the
attack is coordinated by The Argrath, who is the real hero of the day.

All IMO, of course, despite mysarcastic comment above about a consensus
- -- a "general consensus" about Argrath is the one thing I think we can
never achieve.

Stephen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 23:06:33 EEST