Re: EWF Horses, Gold Wheels, Seven Mothers

From: Nick Brooke (
Date: Wed 04 Feb 1998 - 15:15:11 EET

Stephen quotes from "River of Cradles" trying to suggest that:

> ... the Pure Horse Tribe were _not_ imported to Prax by the EWF --
> they seem to have already been there. They simply transferred alleg-
> iance to the EWF from the God Learners at some point. Unless there
> were two Horse Tribes involved?

Perhaps a closer reading of RoC p.8 (sub-heading "The Horse Barbarian
Incursions") is called for?

: ... One of the [Pentan] horse tribes was badly battered; their only
: divine solace was obscure prophecies. At this same time, the leaders
: of Dragon Pass sought armed peoples to resist the raids of the Prax
: nomads; a tribe of the horse barbarians agreed to come southward and
: live in Prax as allies to the King of Dragon Pass. The tribe was
: called the Pure Horse People. They were among the most conservative
: peoples of Pent...

The "King of Dragon Pass" when this migration happened (c.620 ST) would
presumably have been a leader in the EWF's Third Council: the EWF was
formed in Dragon Pass in 578 "as a ruling religious and political body
over the Dragon Pass peoples." Whoever this leader was, he would have

been an EWF leader; the Pure Horse People came to Prax at his invitation.=

Yet Stephen writes "[they] were _not_ imported to Prax by the EWF"? I'm
boggling, me.

I can't see any grounds (or necessity) for positing more confusion (*two*=

horse tribes migrating at different times from Pent/Redlands to Prax?), a=
will assume Stephen hasn't been reading our sources particularly carefull=
Mind you, what he gets up to in his Glorantha is surely his own business
and nobody else's: if there's a 20KB explanation, *please* don't send it!=

        * * *

Note that these "obscure prophecies" leading the Pure Horse People south
in the Second Age may well be identical to those raved about by the Madma=
of Hargeel-Idea (cf. Genertela Book p.62, a Common Event in Pent): if the=

Pentans have always expected the rebirth/reincarnation/whatever of their
(let's face it) *Feathered* Horse Goddess somewhere Down South, it'd help=


        1) The Pentan Pure Horse People's migration to Prax in the
                Second Age (following "obscure prophecies");

        2) The coming of the Feathered Horse Queen among the Grazer
                nomads of Dragon Pass, descendents of the Pure Horse Trib=

        3) The Madman (madmen?) of Hargeel-Idea, raving in Pent toda=

        4) Sheng Seleris' subsequent invasion of Dragon Pass, as per=

                "King of Sartar".

I like to suppose that the Char-Un breeding programme (those winged,
carnivorous steeds) fit into the same matrix of reversion to Hippoi...

The "Glorious ReAscent of Yelm" and "Fortunate Succession" give a
homeland for the Horse Nomads to the south of Dara Happa, in modern

Dario (a *fine* artist!) asks:

> What is, in your opinion, the aspect of the race of the Gold Wheel
> Dancers? (Big heads, Cocoon-the movie-like, shining humans, human torch=
> big wheels of light with hundreds of eyes (kerubims)?)

I like your Kerubim (Cherubim) suggestion: something out of Ezekiel's
would fit nicely, and be weirdly alien. I also imagine them as looking li=
"Mr. Happy" (a round yellow smiley person), and/or one of the Triskeles (=
tripod of legs, perhaps holding up a circular body).

This would explain why Tripods are valuable currency in the Dawn Ages --
cf. Homer for anyone who doesn't believe me -- though when all the legs

break off the corpses, people start using Wheels as coinage instead. (Not=

worth as much as a perfectly-formed dead Tripod, though :-).

Burning three-legged wheels of fire, with thousands of eyes, in constant
motion: I'd love to see them drawn by you, Dario!

Pinchining (the only one seen in the modern age) is variously described a=
a hoop (PE p.35) and a disk (PE p.38) of gold; this confusion may arise
because he *looks* solid from a distance, but you can "see through him" u=
close -- though perhaps not out the other side... (Or else it's a cockup:=

any bets? :-)

Erik asks:

> Would it be possible for a character to be a lay member of both Lanbril=

> and Pavis, or are they incompatible?

Obviously, the character will keep his Lanbril lay membership secret from=

his Pavis cult chums. The incompatibility is entirely as seen by the Pavi=
cult: Lanbril (the "Faceless Man") is *delighted* when his worshippers ca=
sneak into other cults, spy on their secrets and nick their geegaws...
Glorantha isn't one of those worlds where people walk around saying, "I'm=

a thief, me." (Naming no games, for fear of lawsuits from T$R).

> One of the characters is originally from Peloria, but his family got
> relocated to the Pavis area for some reason. Would he be expected to
> worship the 7M, seeing as he was born and raised in Peloria, or are
> they mostly considered to be a frontier religion?

While ("by the book") it's unlikely that this character worshipped the
Seven Mothers (jointly) in his youth, if he's a pious Lunar he'll almost
certainly be worshipping them now he's out on the frontier and the only
local Lunar temples and big worship services are held in honour of the
(collective) Seven Mothers. He doesn't have much choice, does he!

You can give him some weird rune spells from whatever Lunar cult he used
to be a devotee of, but he's damn unlikely ever to meet a priest of that
god out in the boonies, let alone find a temple. Best to treat these as
unusual Associate spells, renewable at the Seven Mothers temples in Pavis=

and Moonbroth. And, yes, he may "look down on" the frontier religion, the=

temples staffed partly by keen barbarian converts, the general mythic
poverty of the Lunar faith on the borders... "And if he doesn't like it,
why doesn't he just sod off back home to Peloria? I thought so..."

And, of course, he could have worshipped *one* of the Mothers before, and=

now be worshipping her or him jointly with the other Six out in Prax. It'=
be like an Orlanthi or Lhankor Mhy worshipper with just a "Lightbringers
Temple" to worship in -- he'd fit in, but stick out, if you see what I'm
on about, and the Temple wouldn't have all the facilities of his main cul=

BTW, being "relocated to the Pavis area for some reason" sounds unnecess-=

arily vague. Loads of Lunar peasant families (inc. Carmanians, Talastari,=

Redlanders, Pelorians) have been relocated, usually for being inconvenien=
or rebellious (or living too close to inconvenient or rebellious lords or=

neighbours). Some of the settlers in Prax are voluntary colonists, but
they aren't (yet) the majority, IMO. So work out a story for this poor



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