Jrusteli Beginnings

From: Joerg Baumgartner (jorganos@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon 09 Feb 1998 - 11:39:10 EET

I asked:
>>I'm a bit puzzled about how the God Learners came to learn >>about the
secrets of creative heroquesting ("heroquesting
>>outside of a specific cult myth", as Greg puts it in the Elder
>>Secrets appendix on Heroquesting).

and Peter suggested:
>Through the conquest of the Dark Empire?

Would be a nifty explanation. Alas, we know that as early as 573 the God
Learners were able to rob the secret of Draconic Speech from the
barbarian cult of Drolgard, a cult they had no mythic relation to.

Therefore, your quotes don't solve my problem.

Peter again:
>I don't see why making people donate more power to the
>leaders in Dorastor was an aim or mystery of the Nysalor Cult.

I don't claim that it was a mystery of the Nysalor cult, but I think
that it was an aim of the missionaries who came to the West curing this
outbreak of disease.

>For instance, centralising cult so that the worship confers
>power on a Big Leader is not a big mystery. The Dara Happans
>have managed it from scratch. Secondly the affairs of the
>Kingdom of Dari and Tanisor were independant of the Cult in
>Dorastor so I do not think that the citizens of those lands
>donated power to the Leaders in Dorastor.

Is that true about Tanisor? In that case, the leaders of Tanisor might
have been interested in gaining this form of support.

To me it seems that the missionaries working in Seshnela had their own
agenda, and while I don't believe their enemies' propaganda literally, I
doubt that their motives were pure. The Vampire Kings of Tanisor did not
come from nothing...

More Peter:
>The Serpent Kings (I wouldn't describe them as Malkioni)
>went all the way to Hrelar Amali where they added Temples to
>Orlanth and Magasta (according to the Jonstown Compendium).

The Compendium doesn't exactly say that it were the Serpent Kings who
built the temples. From what I recall out of hand from Hrestol's Saga,
the late Serpent King dynasty were hardly an efficient gouvernment.

However, exactly this situation may have led to strong local lordlings
establishing themselves beyond the traditional border. This is a bit
similar to the outbreak of large scale Viking raids after the Danish
kings had been weakened decisively by the Franks - without a strong
royal authority, the nobles became potentates in their own right, and
worked out their ambitions outside of their homelands.

>Then the Serpent Kings died out and a reactionary movement
>took over (although I do believe they were considerably more
>henotheistic than modern Malkioni).

I agree to that statement. I mean, Hrestol had close contact with
non-Malkioni deities during his decisive quests, and not just as
enemies; and the wizards were known to manipulate deities to do their
bidding (i.e. they propitiated them with sacrifices etc, not too
dissimilar from the way the greater spirits are called into action in
Nomad Gods).

>I believe that the Collapse of the Silver Empire happened _after_
>the Sunstop on the basis of Codex #2's mention that the
>Fronelan states are beginning the process of political
>integration in 385 ST. Why then and not when the Silver

>Empire fell?

Because the fall of the Silver Empire was a period of disintegration,
aka civil war? The situation in Fronela after the fall of the Silver

Empire reminds me of the situation in Britain after the departure of
Magnus Maximus. Garrisons understaffed because the warriors have been
taken away on a campaign against the old centre of the empire (in this
case Brithos), and the barbarians on the border waiting to strike. Local
potentates grabbing for power, allying with barbarians to beat Malkioni
opponents... This could simmer for quite a while before a new order is

The idea that the attack on Brithos was an attempt to further the
Nysaloran philosophy has some potential, but I need a bit more
convincing to accept it.

>While I fully agree that the island of Jrustela "sat out" the Gbaji
>wars, don't forget the arrival of the fall-out from the succession
>war after the death of Nralar the Old: that's mainstream
>post-Nysalorian Seshnegi political (inc. religious, one may
>assume) leaders, plus "a large segment" of the population (cf.
>Wyrms Footprints p.25), who we know made a big difference to
>the Jrusteli worldview and outlook.

Sure. This may have incited the Return To Rightness movement. BUT: The
Jrusteli God Learners had been active before that. Nralar died after the
EWF was founded.

There seems to be a big hole in the recorded history of the West...

Joerg Baumgartner (via Hotmail)

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