Hrelar Amali

From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@voyager.co.nz)
Date: Sat 14 Feb 1998 - 23:17:49 EET


Joerg Baumgartner:

[Claims that the Dangan Confederacy collapsed around 160 ST which allowed
the Seshnegi to conquer it afterwards and set up the temples to Orlanth
and Magasta (cf JC) there. I counter-claim that they would have done so
in the days of the Serpent Kings for no such conquest in mentioned in the
BCG and post-Serpent King Seshnela was anti-pagan.]

>>This occurs around 255 ST, which implies that the Dangan confederation
>>remained in existance since it's contact by the World Council and that
>>it has existed around Hrelar Amali. What happened to it is that it became
>>subsumed into the Dari Alliance, which united _all_ the lowland tribes.

>In that case, I guess the claim in the Jonstown Compendium in RQ Companion
>is insubstantial, and there have been no Brithos-descended Seshnegi erecting
>temples in Hrelar Amali.

It says no such thing. The BCG does not give the history of the
Dangan Confederacy _before_ its contact by the World Council in 130
ST. Which is _when_ I think the incident took place.

>>>One can only expand when one is secure in one's position.

[I posted three counter-examples. All of these, Joerg acknowledges
but then makes some trivial objection as to why they don't apply in
the case of the Serpent Kings while missing the point that his trite
amphorism has been exploded.]

>I don't recall any Macedon incident for the Second Punic War.

The First Macedonian War was contemporary with the Second Punic
War. Hannibal and Philip V of Macedon even signed a treaty.

>The Serpent Kings did no such thing. They fought their wars pretty
>straightforward across the (quite long) direct borders to their enemies.

How do you know?

>>Indeed some states may have been allied with the Seshnegi against the
>>Basmoli.

Oops. Galalini is meant here - some states of the 'Basmoli' may have
allied with the Seshnegi against the Galalini. I've put Basmoli in
quotes because after the marriage of King Froalar to Seshna, I think
the Seshnegi Malkioni became the leading state in Seshnela. Its customs
would have been aped by the other states and the recorded wars are IMO
attempts by the Serpent Kings to accumulate power within the Royal
House, much like King Guilmarn does today.

>Relations never got friendly enough that armed forces would have been
>allowed to pass through peacefully...

>To (ab)use and adapt your examples from above, did the Romans strike through
>Carthaginan/Phoenician-held Gibraltar to the Ivory Coast? Did the Athenians
>move their fleet overland through the Peloponnes to Sicily?

No, but the Crusaders have moved armies through Hungary and the
Byzantium Empire despite less-than-enthusiastic smiles on the faces
of the Hungarians and the Byzantines.

>>Why would the Spaniards want to halt sacrifices to Xipec Tlaloc, our
>>Lord of Flayed Skins who could have been exploited as a fertility god?

>Because they were a) in power and b) did not (unlike the Malkioni) believe
>that there were real powers to be harvested from that deity.

Erm, a) so are the Silver Empire whom you presume put the shrines
up there and b) the Spanish did believe the powers were real, they

thought them _demonic_ and thus worthy of destruction. Which is
what I believe the Silver Empire would have done.

>>For them to junk this
>>habit when encountering a foreign temple that might be useful to them
>>is farfetched IMO.

>"Ah, they are just benighted demi-beasts. They don't know better, and it
>serves our purposes."

The Spanish did not employ such reasoning when they conquered Aztec
Mexico and the Perus.

- --Peter Metcalfe

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