Ra(i)li(os)ng on

From: Joerg Baumgartner (jorganos@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue 17 Feb 1998 - 14:13:46 EET


Peter Metcalfe:
>Arkat when he ruled over Ralios had an uz-centred
>religion which is a tad incompatible with the
>Lightbringing Orlanth religion.

Funny, then, that the Kingdom of Night under the Only Old One fully
embraced the Lightbringers' message, and _spread the creed_! I doubt

that Arkat had more problems than the OOO with tolerating the (original,
non-Osentalka) Theyalan world-view.

>Now I can't actually speak about what Arkat changes
>made as we only have polemic tracts about the
>Kingdom of Darkness and all that. However given
>that the Lowlanders exposure to the Lightbringers
>is tied in with Nysalor (they come from the same
>source), it would have been seen as _bad_ when
>he cleared Ralios of the deceiver.

That's a non-sequitur. Nysalor comes over 200 years after the first
exposure to Lightbringer ideas, and after a good part of the Theyalans
breaks off the council. The Ralians who embraced Arkat as their
liberator from Gbaji (fewer than in Maniria though, where there was an
oppressive regime installed by the Bright Empire). Arkat built upon the
foundations laid by the Theyalan missionaries that long ago.

While it is dangerous to compare Arkat to Mohammed, I think there is a
certain parallel here to Mohammed's treatment of the Jewish Arabs of
Medina during his ascension (he forced them out of Medina) and after his
successors had been established - a time when Christian and Jewish Arabs
continued to play a part in the affairs of Arabia. Mohammed's

revelations accepted the Jewish and Christian creeds as kindred creeds,
though inferior in their perception of the truth as revealed to himself.

>Now I know Arkat betrayed the Malkioni to join
>Humakt to fight with Harmast. But he had betrayed
>the Malkioni (who now controlled Lowland Ralios)
>in doing so and thus any message of Lightbringing
>being good would have fallen among deaf ears in
>the lowlands and receptive ears among the Vustrians
>et al.

I don't really think that Arkat left all the Safelstran lowlands to
Malkioni lords. On his time among the Kethaelans Arkat installed
friendly local leaders (Only Old One, King of the Hendriki) to act as
his gouvernors. I think it is said that he usually did so (I'm at work
now, away from my sources), so I see no reason why he should have left
all the land to foreign oppressors when he had friendly natives to
continue his policy (like Maklaman, or the leaders who joined his forces
during the rural rebellions). I don't think that conquest was a primary
objective of his crusade. Even if it was, we know enough examples of
Malkioni conquerors happy to tolerate whatever quaint religion their
subjects follow, as long as they accept the dominance of their lords.

>But I strongly doubt that Orlanth have had a
>greater influence than Humath. My criterion
>for assuming that a tribe or peoples had been
>Theyalanized is the adoption of Orlanth as the
>men's god.

Which would exclude the Rightarm Islanders, the Esrolites, the
Caladrans, the Kitori, the Boar Riders of Stinking Forest and possibly
even the Dorastans from Theyalan culture. A bit narrowminded, compared
to the definition of "Orlanthi" in the Genertela Players Book.

But I willingly grant you that under that definition, the Enerali,
Vustri, and numerous other peoples in and around the Bright Empire fail
to register as Theyalans. Only this would leave us without a term to
describe the thing the Theyalan missionaries have spread. Unless you
provide such a term, I cannot use that definition... (And the dreaded
semantics strike again.)

>Now the Galanini would have still been worshipping
>Eneral, Galin or even Humath (I don't know enough
>about the Galanini to say which one) as their men's
>god and not Orlanth. Even then I feel that Humath
>had a greater influence in Galanini society than Orlanth.

Well, the Dinacoli tribe in (3rd Age) Sartar doesn't exactly worship
Orlanth as their mens' god, but Yelmalio (at least last time I asked
Greg). Are they something else than Orlanthi? Their kings follow Orlanth

Rex rites (even Harvar Ironfist of the Vantaros, who switched to Yelm
later on), and their farmers have something between "Lodril" and Barntar
as their ploughman's god. They "know the Greeting", though, as do the
Caladrans and the Esrolites. They raid cattle like everybody else. And
when they want storm, they call upon Orlanth Thunderous, I suppose.

IMO the middle 1st Age Enerali "knew the Greeting" as well, and shared
most of the other broader culture of the Theyalans.

Shannon Appel

>If you look at _The Broken Council Guidebook_
>it's pretty clear that the Theyalans had a very definite
>effect on the Ralians (meaning the humans mainly,
>Galanini or Enerali as you prefer -- the Hsunchen were
>the demonized enemies of the late first age).

By "late first age" I gather you mean the years from 200-350 ST
described as recent history in the Guidebook. They seem to have

converted en masse during the God Project and the early years of the
Bright Empire - it is the Bemuri-descended Delelans (and minor nations)
who use Arkat for a swearword.

(In and around Lankst, there surely is the opinion that "nobody who
killed the Telmori can have been all bad"... They may remember Arkat's
betrayal (for returning the lowlanders to power) and curse him for a
deceiver, but IMO they don't glorify the Bright Empire as much as the
East Ralians.)

[much snippage where I agree fully]

>And the Ralians did eventually come back
to help the Council. That was the Second
>Dari Alliance, and they beat up the Hsunchen
>of the highlands at the Council's bequest.

The northern highlands (Vesmonstran), right? Or did they convert the
Bemuri by force?

>PS: Watch for Tradetalk #3 - when it comes out

Which might delay a bit longer, I'm afraid. We still plan to get #4 out
by May.

Joerg Baumgartner (via Hotmail)
mailto:joe@toppoint.de

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #432
***********************************

To unsubscribe from the Glorantha Digest, send an "unsubscribe"
command to glorantha-digest-request@chaosium.com. Glorantha is a
Trademark of Issaries Inc. With the exception of previously
copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this
digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to
copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to
archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.

Official WWW at http://www.glorantha.com
Archives at http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 23:09:22 EEST