From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Wed 18 Feb 1998 - 12:04:11 EET

Joerg Baumgartner:

Me>>Arkat was born about 375 ST (calculated from Cults of Terror which says
>>that his life was 75 years of struggle against Gbaji) which would have
>>made him 25 years old when he landed in Arolanit.

>Nice calculation, but since Gbaji (or rather Nysalor) lived for exactly 75
>years, Arkat could hardly have fought him any longer.

For this to be true, the doctrines would have to be instanteously
teleported to Brithos, which I doubt. Besides Cults of Terror then
goes on to say 'There he cleared a simple farmstead and kept the area
around it under his watchful eye for his other 75 years'. Ergo Arkat
was born at the same time as Nysalor and struggled against Gbaji all
his life.

>This doesn't say how
>many years of his life he spent earlier, and Greg's reading at RQ-COn 1 gave
>the age of 80 for a fairly early part of the Brithini expedition force's
>struggles (their first encounter with trolls).

Arkat OTOH was renowed for his skill in weapons. CoT calls him 'a
prodigy in combat' (p17) whereas the Glorantha Book says 'He advanced
quickly, even among the keen competition of the specialized warriors'
(p18). So I don't think he was 80 circa 400 ST.

[On predictive capabilities]

>>I do believe Zzabur to be capable of that sort of prediction (he did
>>after all predict the Dawn, write maps of the future and all that).

>Or rather, he is powerful enough to put down a plan, and then execute it.

Surely with all that power, surely he can be allowed a itsy little
bitsy of prophecy?

>>IMO the Seshnegi fleet was sunk by Zzabur summoning a kamikaze or

>A Seshnegi fleet, while the Waertagi ruled the waves... I never really got
>over this. The orthodox assumption would be that the Seshnegi hired a
>Waertagi fleet to ferry them over.

There's no prohibition IMO against building fleets as the Vadeli had
them too.

>I wonder who they fought when clearing the enemy creed from Brithini cities.
>Enraged Dronars? Deceived Talars? Or serious resistance by aberrant Horali
>and Zzaburi?

All of them IMO as the doctrines appealed to all castes.

>>>If this gut feeling is correct, the Silver Empire campaign would date back
>>>as far as 320 ST. In my timelines, not unlikely either.

Me>>The Brithini are having babies is a guard against _future_ troubles.

>I don't really think that the Brithini having babies is a guarding action,
>rather a preparation for aggression. For what it's worth, the 320 hatching
>could have been in reaction to the True Hrestol Way gaining power over the
>wizards on the continent, only 120 years delayed.

I strongly doubt that the Brithini actually contemplate aggression
given their fear of death. And making babies when a threat becomes
apparent is a foolhardy action as the threat could easily launch
an invasion on Brithos before their army has a chance to mature.
It behoves the Brithini to be aware as much as possible about any
grave dangers in the future so that they can prepare.

After all, the Brithini of Arolanit are not having babies right now
yet they are going to be involved in some battles in Seshnela.

>>I presume that Zzabur was aware [in 320 ST] that something was going
>>to happen circa 375 ST.
>A great feat, after all the main events started around 350 with the
>discovery of the Pseudocosmic Egg. Unless he planted it there.

The Pseudocosmic Egg was discovered in 307 ST and revealed in 350 ST.
There were also _other_ events of cosmic significance starting to
take place (Heathen God, Garanian's Quest, Dragon Emperor studying
rune, disease in Pamaltela etc) which would have an impact and which
Zzabur would have become aware off IMO.

>>Presumably what you then see wrong with the 385 ST fall is that the
>>Seshnegi invasion would be too long after the apparent tensions between
>>the Seshnegi and the Brithini in 320 ST? To wit, the Seshnegi would
>>have attacked much earlier after relations worsened?

>The Seshnegi attack may have been what convinced Zzabur that immediate
>action had to be taken, i.e. a new generation of warriors had to be bred.

I don't think this is so since because it failed and the Silver
Empire fell apart. Zzabur could pick up the pieces by sending
Brithini Diplomats in. He would hardly need to raise a giant
army for conquest as this is the last resort among the Brithini.

>>But the Brithini had serious domestic problems at home. Since Arkat
>>was turned over to the Brithini at the age of 13 and was fighting
>>them in his youth, that must mean that there were missionaries in
>>Brithos after 388 ST.

>Arkat's youth remains to be dated, IMO, after all we are talking Brithini

But the Brithini grow up normally and do not age. I find it
difficult to credit that the Brithini would treat someone
50 years old as youthful or immature.

>Yes, there must have been some missionaries in Brithos, at latest around 380
>ST, and they do seem to have had some impact. Judging Theyalan missionary
>procedure, I suppose that there had been Theyalan aldryami already before
>either Arkat or Nysalor were conceived.

Theyalan Aldryami?!? Please clarify!

>>Whereas if the Silver Empire assault was before the Sunstop, one
>>wonders why the Brithini did not attack there and then after the
>>fall of the Silver Empire instead of waiting until 400 ST?

>Because the Brithini are a bit lost in time. From their POV, to breed kids
>to gain the manpower would be an immediate action - comparable to an
>Orlanthi chief ordering spearheads and shafts to be made before a campaign.

IMO the Brithini are still normal people even if they are dull and
stulifying. Zzabur, for example, tried to capitalize on a Talar's
unexpected death to try to be crowned Talar of Brithos. They have
a normal sense of time and can grow bored and/or impatient.

>>The actual dichotomy in Seshnela was between linealists and idealists
>>as per the Glorantha Book.

>Good point. So how close to the current Loskalm model were the idealists?

The ancient idealists would have considered the Loskalmi to have
bats in the belfry (or haben ein vogel).

>>I believe Arolanit was originally populated by Old Malkioni who did
>>not accept the Hrestoli relevations (mainly because they saw what the
>>rotter did to Seshnela and Brithos and knew that he was judge of the

>Unless there was a third Malkioni colony further north on the Neleomi shore,
>Arolanit was Pendali or Fornoari territory at the Dawn. The map in Uz Lore
>p.13 seems to support this view.

I think most Brithini Colonies took the form of scattered villages
and towns along the coast with the lands of Akem and Seshnela
representing more developed territories.

>After the end of the Serpent King dynasty,
>such a group might have crystallized there around figures like Akgarbash of

What evidence do you have Akgarbash of Laurmal's existance in the
first age? Anyhow Laurmal isn't part of Arolanit.

>>The Brithini have conquered [Arolanit] in the Chaos Wars

>Do you mean against Gbaji, or during the Greater Darkness?

Against Gbaji.

>>I presume the landing was in Arolanit because that was the most
>>convenient place for a landing against Tanisor and contained a
>>population that could presume to be friendly towards Brithos.

>Why would this part of the former Silver Empire be more friendly? Exile is
>dangerous to the Brithini, it seems, they get strange notions.

I think the Brithini were aware that the people of Arolanit
were different from the Seshnegi and more sympathetic towards
the Brithini.

>>are stated to have landed to punish Tanisor for serious (although
>>unspecified trangressions). Seshnela was presumed hostile for daring
>>to invade Brithos and so no landing was attempted there.

>Laurmal is right next to Frowal, in the heart of Malkioni Seshnela.

I think you are confusing Laurmal with Laufol. Laurmal was a
Seshnegi City and now lies in the Castle Coast. Laufol lies
north of the Iron Mountains and is now part of Arolanit proper.
IMO the Brithini are landing at Laufol.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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