Galinae, Chivalry

From: Joerg Baumgartner (
Date: Wed 18 Feb 1998 - 14:37:17 EET

Jose Ramos calls it
>Daring to do battle against Peter and Joerg
>with only printed sources.

Hey, one reason Peter and I mention the contents of the unpublished
sources is to disseminate these. I agree that the old and unpublished
sources can't be taken as pure truth, but they convey an idea of what
Greg thinks (or used to think) about facets of Glorantha only mentioned
in passing.

In this case, most of the old sources managed to influence the recent
(ha -including How the West Was One, Broken Council Guidebook and
World's Greatest Tournament) publications on the area.


>> There *is* a modern tribe of the Galanini in the east
>>wilds who were formed when Jonat visited Seshnela.
>>(It's even described in Jonat's Saga but that is such
>>archaic shite - it has people riding around in chariots frex
>>- that only a few details can be assumed).

While I wouldn't have used this expressive language, I found Jonat's
Saga needed some reconciliation to use as background for the southern
Safelstran churches. Chariot use during Jonat's time might be excused
with continued God Learner experimentation, after 1050 they would be
relegated to ritual purposes only (if not earlier, like after trying
them in battle once).

>>That is why it is unsafe to refer to the Third Age Safelstrans or even
>>people of Galin as Galanini.

>So, how do you call the citizens of Galin who follow the
>Horse God Galanin, specially if you have not read (and
>will never read) Jonat's saga?

Galanini has about as many meanings as "Theyalans" or "Orlanthi", so a
qualifier might be required wherever the context doesn't make things
clear. Citizens of Galin should be called just that, or Galini;
worshippers of Galanin might earn the name in the modern context.

>Safelster cities have trouble fielding big corps of
>heavy cavalry, so most such bodies will be the small
>Households of Nobles and mercenary bands, many
>of them from Seshnela, but also from the Castle Coast
>and Fronela.

Don't discount the native mercenaries. If you look at the Thirty Years
War in Germany, there were lots of foreign mercenaries, but at least as
many German "Landsknechte". The situation in Ralios is more relaxed than
Germany during the 30-Years-War, but not much with the recent Seshnegi
(Tanisoran, to be exact) activities.

>The burghers, when forced to fight, will do it from
>the walls of their city, or in big militia units, never
>venturing far from home.

Unless their city lord happens to regard himself as a military genius
and leads them abroad no matter what the disruption. Of the current
greater nobles in Ralios, I believe that Count Darmangon fits that bill,
but there are lots of smaller cities with petty lords engaged in
internal feuds. Ralios is a mercenary's paradise.

>I feel you set too much store on Ulianus influence. He
>conquered only a part of Safelster (IMO Daran, Kustria,
>Dangim, Uron, Tarasdal, and parts of Azilos, Tinaros
>and Holut). He managed to extract tribute from all the
>states in the lake, but political control was feeble. This
>region is, IMG again, where rokarism spread to the peasants,
>and in some cases to the rulers too.

For some reason, you failed to mention Rokari Tiskos, and from HtWW1
Sentanos (Tortun at least) had been within the Rokari sphere as well. I
guess part of Ulianus' conquest was lake-borne, though.

BTW: Tinaros has effectively remained a blank land apart from what
happened to its ruling family 1597-1600.

>The nominal knight caste is what would be Noble too
>in the RW. That is why I prefer Lords and Knights, as
>they are both Noble (cf What my father told me).

RW nobility made a difference between real nobility and low nobility as
well. Another useful parallel for the knight caste might be the English
yeoman - a class allowed (required) to carry a sword and a bow, with
special taxation, and well-defined terms of service. The Jizamurai in
"RQ-Land of Ninja" fills a similar role.

IMO the debate about the exact role of the knight in the southwest could
have filled the entire HtWW1 committees. While part of the caste
question, chivalric rules and chivalric orders may vary widely.

>The Galana are (IMO once again) still going strong
>in Galin, one of the Ralian Cities, after the "rediscovery"
>of Galanin.

Even stronger in Helby. The southeastern Safelstrans in Rise of Ralios
were presented as divided in this question.

>I suspect the God Learners suppressed him for the
>cult of Ehilm. Most of what the GLs knew about Dara
>Happa was what they found from their indirect influence
>on Ehilm's worship in Galin.

IMO the reverse is true - what the God Learners had found about Dara
Happa in the scriptures they tried out in Galin and Helby. I doubt that
the neo-Hsunchen or their re-discovery of Ehilm as ancestor happened
without God Learner prompting. Rivalling theories about sky- and horse
worshippers field-tested. It might be fun to get the experiment reports
of the rivalling GLs as documents...

>Joerg (who agrees mostly with me, or I with him, so I will not repeat

Little wonder - after all I play in Jose's game, and we have discussed
much of this as part of the background...

>>I am quite wary about the term "caste" in Malkioni context [...]

>I know, as IMG castes are quite permeable. But that is
>the term we have in almost all the sources.

A leftover from Darkness Malkionism, IMO. Shows that Malkionism is a
book religion clinging desperately to an old ideal.

>>Overall, the standard heavily armored knight will be found in most
>>Safelstran feudal armies, though, for practical reasons.

>The more important reason is that they are Seshnegi mercenaries:-)

Not all mercenaries in heavy armour are Seshnegi. After a battle, the
winning side usually gets new sets of heavy armour from the losers,
through ransom or "inheritance" from the former owners.

>The Horse Lords of Galin have changed to become similar to
>the other heavy cavalry, but their special rapport with their
>horses is a big advantage.

This makes a special "Galana" breed with Daron material quite likely. If
the Pure Horse tribe of Prax could produce War-Zebras in Prax (a breed
superior to most Seshnegi chargers, I seem to recall), something similar
should be available to Galin. (After all, the art of heroquesting was
not lost at once when the God Learners were destroyed - this did require
heroquesting on the side of their enemies...)

>The standard heavy cavalry in the West is the Seshnegi
>Knight, who is similar (tactically-wise) to the RW western
>knights of the XIVth century (an elite core of knights with
>heavy armor and barding, with sergeants and men at arms
>filling the ranks). That is present in Safelster in the tanisorian
>area of influence (more or less Ulianus' conquests).

I think it will have spread through the availability of mercenary
companies into the more distant regions of Naskorion and Otkorion as
well, but unlike central Europe's age of chivalry, it wasn't the only
form of cavalry (or even chivalry) available (IIRC even the Hungarians
had become pretty standard chivalry by the time of the Mongol

>The skirmishers of Holut resemble the turcopoles, or the muslim
>ghazi, or the spanish genitores, or the venetian balkanic
>mercenaries whose name I have forgotten.

The Spanish genitores were the inspiration used by the authors of HtWW1,
I suppose, looking at the translation of Holut names.

Early reconquista Spain (the age of El Cid) probably is as good a
parallel for Ralios as is earliest Renaissance Italy, with two different
creeds rivalling for supremacy. I would cast the lighter Muslim chivalry
in the Stygian side, and the dull Frankish riding tins in the Seshnegi

>The Loskalmi are a step forward, resembling XVth century
>knights. Few will be found in Ralios, except as participants
>in Kustria's Tournament.

Loskalmi knights in Ralios would be on some strange quest, mostly. That
is the only excuse the New Idealist Hrestolism gives for absence from
one's regimental duties IMO; as a result, Loskalmi knights in Ralios
might tend to be those seeking caste advancement in their home country.

>The Horse Lords of Galin, and other Galanin followers
>resemble the Polish Winged Knights, with plenty of feathers,
>and even some of them skilled in bow use from horseback,
>a tradition proudly kept.

I don't know about the wings - Galanin has no hippogriff connections,
probably thanks to the neo-Hsunchen tradition in the God Learner
experiment (apart from that, the Pelorian mould has been fit to the
Ralian people IMO). The County of Galin would field knights in gilded
armour armed with bows, ornated with horsetails on the helmets, possibly
from the shoulder-pieces as well.

The foresters of Helby will most likely be some sort of light cavalry,
possibly still lance-armed, with some sort of missile weapon. Perhaps
the javelin like the Holut cavaliers. They are especially effective
against lightly-armoured infantry in difficult terrain (aka Damali
Hsunchen, or Basim levies).

>Most of the other native knights will resemble in
>function the Japanese Samurai (without bows),
>skilled in both horse and foot combat, great besiegers,
>but with a weaker charge than the others.

Add a skill in naval combat for the states on Lake Felster. This demand
for all-round training will necessarily give a disadvantage against the
single-minded Tanisoran horse-charge.

>It is enough to break orlanthi shield walls or to chase
>chariots, however. They are more used to being honor
>guards than fighting in the battlefield, a mercenary's
>job anyway.

More importantly, on the battlefield the local knights are in command of
the levies, and in charge of coordinating the mercenary contingents.

Joerg Baumgartner (via Hotmail)

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