Arolanit et al.

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Thu 19 Feb 1998 - 23:52:55 EET

Joerg Baumgartner:


>That CV would assume that Arkat's father came to Brithos the year before the
>Sunstop, or that he begat Arkat during the Sunstop, and that Arkat was born
>before the Sunstop ended. (Sandy once said that entire generations may have
>passed away during the Sunstop; surely a heroic pregnancy could be fitted in.)

Yes. Is there a problem with this?

>However, if Arkat was given to the Horali college at age 13, he must have
>been full-grown by that time, or he wouldn't have fit physically with the
>other Horali.

People become adults at around 13 in the Good Ancient Days. You should
stop using real age parallels which are largely a product of our modern

>>Arkat OTOH was renowed for his skill in weapons. CoT calls him 'a
>>prodigy in combat' (p17) whereas the Glorantha Book says 'He advanced
>>quickly, even among the keen competition of the specialized warriors'
>>(p18). So I don't think he was 80 circa 400 ST.

>I can agree that he may have lied about his age to join the invasion force
>(not unheard of). I'm fairly sure that the other trainee Horali would have
>been that old.

Why should he lie about his age? He's the best of the best. They
select troops for skill and not age.


>>Surely with all that power, surely [Zzabur] can be allowed a itsy little
>>bitsy of prophecy?

>Prophecy, yes, but none of the kind "55 years onward, in the year 375, on
>noon of, the sun will stop in the sky."

I notice that the Dwarf of Dwarf Run makes even more accurate
predictions than that and nobody complains.

>BUT: would you increase the number of fighters if you knew that there would
>be a rebellion including your fighters soon?

But he didn't know the precise nature of the danger, he assumed the
danger would be external.

>>It behoves the Brithini to be aware as much as possible about any
>>grave dangers in the future so that they can prepare.

>Just Glorantha doesn't really work that way. The best they can do is prepare
>a new army to deal with the Hero Wars prophecies they have heard about.

What do you mean? We can predict that Bad Things are going to
happen in the Year 2000 based on our computers. We can deduce
that if the air pressure starts dropping like a stone that a
storm is coming. So what's wrong with Zzabur making similar

>>The Pseudocosmic Egg was discovered in 307 ST and revealed in 350 ST.

>Revealed in 350. That would be the most likely moment even Zzabur could
>have learned about it.

I don't think so. Zzabur isn't casting mystic vision spells and
scanning all glorantha. What he is sensing is the rise in magical
potential and says to himself 'By the prickling of my thumbs,
Serious Shit this way comes' before ordering the babies.

Me>>And making babies when a threat becomes
>>apparent is a foolhardy action as the threat could easily launch
>>an invasion on Brithos before their army has a chance to mature.

>But this is what you propose happened with the Bright Empire's

Nonsense. The army was mature enough to fight of any invasion
come the Sunstop.

>>After all, the Brithini of Arolanit are not having babies right now
>>yet they are going to be involved in some battles in Seshnela.

>Aren't they? That Handran merchant who complained about the lack of children
>(Seshnela, Arolanit) may simply have not seen the places where the children
>were brought up. IMO the shock of the Opening would have caused Talar
>Malaskan Philippe to order another breed of Brithini to deal aggressively
>with the troubles to come.

>(And remember the wild theories we talked about in Schleswig, with the
>not-quite Brithini peasants and their rejuvenation magics...)

Which required a one-on-one correspondance with baby and aging peasant.
The theory was that the wizard taps the peasant into dust and bones
which then ages the baby into adulthood (ie 13 years IMHO) and gives him
the erstwhile peasant's knowledge. Solves childcare and superannuation
at one stroke.

But the Arolanit will still need to have multiple sets of kids and
mature them the hard way to fight off future crises.

>>I don't think this is so since because it failed and the Silver
>>Empire fell apart. Zzabur could pick up the pieces by sending
>>Brithini Diplomats in. He would hardly need to raise a giant
>>army for conquest as this is the last resort among the Brithini.

>That's where we disagree. Zzabur prepared an army to unleash a "preemptive
>strike" against a weakened foe, to end the threat for good, IMO.

But he could had tons of diplomats to do the job for him
instead of risking Brithini lives.

>>But the Brithini grow up normally and do not age. I find it
>>difficult to credit that the Brithini would treat someone
>>50 years old as youthful or immature.

>Think about Tolkien elves. Yes, the Brithini are IMO the equivalent to
>Tolkien's Noldor - immortal, superhuman, and annoying.

But the Brithini are humans who grow and mature the way like
other humans do. Ergo they would _not_ treat someone as youthful
or immature.

>IMO the Brithini are perfectionists out of their fear of death. While their
>military expeditions seem to perform Resurrections of lost personnel
>routinely and physical death is not immediately annihilation of the subject,
>even taking the wrong decisions on minor matters furthers the deterioration
>of one's existence.

Physical death in a foreign country is almost certainly immediate
annihilation for the Brithini which is why they prefer diplomacy
first and not send in armies for aggressive purposes.

>I'm not certain about that. Zzabur's coup happened within a few years since
>the Dawn, when the Brithini had not yet developed a sense of the new thing
>called Time. They are slow learners IMO, because changes are anathema to them.

Zzabur and others were well acquainted with the Red Sands of Time
which had been running since the Sun first disappeared.

>>I think most Brithini Colonies took the form of scattered villages
>>and towns along the coast with the lands of Akem and Seshnela
>>representing more developed territories.

>Why would the Brithini (or unsolaced Malkioni) live in such undefensible
>positions and risk their precious lives?

One, they are not Brithini but people who have been exiled. They
have nowhere else to go but are forced to live in villages at the
convience of the Waertagi who would use them to communicate with
the natives.

>>What evidence do you have Akgarbash of Laurmal's existance in the
>>first age?

>Well, if he is from the city of Laurmal, he was around before 1049,
>probably for some time.

Why? He could have been a prince-wizard of ruins. There's a trading
enclave with the dwarves which bespeaks some permanent dwellings there
just like the Real City in the Big Rubble.

>There aren't many non-Brithini (or other immortal races)
>around from that period, the only individual I can think of offhand is that
>shamaness head-hunter who helped finish off the God Learners in East Ralios.

Godunya. The Sorcerers of Orathorn. Countess Yolanela. Yanasdros
Ingestsson. Govertainer Shadowshirt. Malaksan Phillippe (was a
God Learner in the Second Age). Vastapoor and Vestenbora.

>>I think the Brithini were aware that the people of Arolanit
>>were different from the Seshnegi and more sympathetic towards
>>the Brithini.

>If there were people descended from Brithos who lived there. When did they
>settle there in your version? Did they arrange with the heathen natives?

During the Grey Age. They were probably settled there to occupy a
Waertagi trading port.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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