From: Richard Ohlson (
Date: Thu 26 Feb 1998 - 05:31:10 EET

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:38:58 +0000
> From: Simon Hibbs <>
> Subject: Re: The Glorantha Digest V5 #453
[re: actual death as part of Humakti Initiation]
> Actual killing? What do you mean by that? You have already said you
> don't think Humakti should be resurectable. I think this is going too
> far, too close to undeath.

That's probably true. I just keep thinking that in a world as rich in
magic as Glorantha is, perhaps Symbolic Death as part of a major
ceremony is going to be pretty hideous. Technically, they would not be

"unreseructable" until the end of the ceremoney, though perhaps they don't
actually die. Maybe they pop into hell for a few minutes, and then
come back into the real world, taking a "trip to the world of the dead"

without actually dieing.
> We know that Humakt slughtered the healers of Healer Valley, which is
> re-enacted in the outlawed Lead Cross heroquest. Does that help?

Hm, I have heard of the quest, though I don't know the myth it's based
on. Can you tell me where I can find out more about it?
> >Heck, it could
> >even be a matter where Humakt grossly injured a friend (Orlanth?) and
> >had to make a quest to attone for it.
> Atone? Are you mad? That's the kind of thing Orlanth does, not Humakt.
> This is why Humakti sever their ties to their kin - so that their kin
> cannot be held accountable for their actions. This leads one to suspect
> that this is because their actions aren't the sort of thing innocent
> civilians are likely to want to be associated with.

Well, if Humakt is so hung up on personal honor, I suspect that he would
be even more likely to take care of "mistakes" that he has made. However,
after letting (or personally?) whacking Grandfather Mortal, he may have
felt it neccessary to atone. Not because his clan or his family told him
too, and not because anybody threatend those he cut himself off from, but
because it was what he thought was the right thing to do. Afterwards, I
wonder if he learned to think before he acted, unlike the traditional
Orlanthi, "Just do something, then fix it later."
> > I guess it would come down to this, "If you
> >strive to make every death honorable, I will grant you the ability to
> >halt unneccessary death."
> A Humakti would say that all deaths are necessery. Death is absolute -
> eternal.

Yes, but in the end everybody dies. There may be better reasons to die
than others. How about if we change, "unneccessary" to "untimely"?

> A Humakti would be glad to bring the release of death to one in
> suffering, but then to live is to suffer. I doubt CA has a euthanasia
> ethic though.

So far, I haven't heard of one (euthanasia ethic) though I haven't heard
anything specifically forbiding it either. And even if they did, I'm sure
that there would be quite a few CA's that don't agree with it.
> >I would even go so far as say that after a Humakti makes Sword, and
> >is initiated into the innermost secrets of the cult, he may learn just
> >how reliant Humakt is on Challana Arroy.
> _Reliant_?

Well, assuming that there is a great secret tradition about how CA has dirt
on Humakt and has helped him become "Honorable" instead of a thug.
> >It would also heighten the
> >tension caused by the Lead Cross dohicky, and justify another group of
> >people that respect the White Robes.
> I see you know of the Lead Cross quest, yet still come up with this. It
> amazes me. I can't see a self-respecting healer having anything to do
> with humakti by choice. They stand against everything Chalana Arroy
> teaches.

Here's a question, WHY was the Lead Cross Quest banned? If Humakti have such
a callous disregard for all life, for society, and for Chalana Arroy in
particular, are they just fattening 'em up so they can get a really GOOD
cross? I seriously doubt it. I also wonder if Chalana Arroy tries to force
her "don't hurt anybody" philosophy on non CA's, or is it just a really
good gimick to stay neutral and not get killed by opposing clans. [Though
this cynical view doesn't explain the initiate requirements.]



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