Re: Twin Daughters

From: Nick Brooke (
Date: Fri 27 Feb 1998 - 22:53:19 EET

Nichloas Davison ponders:

> I'm intrigued how broo 'mate' with powerful animals such as rhinos
> and crocodiles etc.

All together now: "VERY CAREFULLY!!!"

Dave Cake writes:

> I noticed in Jeffs _The Saga of the Vingkotlings_ in Enclosure that
> the twin wives of Vingkot are daughters of Esrolia and her husband
> Tada.

You might also have seen this in "Wyrms Footprints", in the Vingkot
box on p.29. There, it says that the Twin Wives "are the daughter of
Esrolia. Some sources say they are the daughter of Tada." The naming
of "Esrolia" (presumably for Esrola) is common to both sources.

> This implies the Golden Age Earth cultures of Prax and Esrolia were
> in contact.

Perhaps. To me, it implies that it was known that Vingkot married
"local women", and that these were variously said to be daughters of
Esrola (by people who had close ties to Esrolia) or Tada (by people
Praxwards, and/or those who were so close to Esrolia they knew the
first story was unsupported in those ancient Esrolite clay tablets).

I do not think it states or implies that the daughter(s) are those
of Tada *and* Esrola. I see it as two variant myths.

The intent of the myth would be to legitimise sovereignty, for Vingkot
(through marriage) and his descendents (through heredity) over lands
which, in the Golden Age, were not occupied by Vingkot's people.

> Personally, that there is contact this close is pretty interesting
> news to me, with quite a few ramifications for both.

If these ramifications seem worth exploring, by all means do so! They
seem deeply suspect to me, is all.

My own interpretation is that the Twin Wives are of uncertain, though
undoubtedly sovereignty-conferring, ancestry, and this is variously
traced to Earth-associated prior occupants of the Vingkotling lands.

> As it is specifically stated to be a third age Hendriki scribes
> document, it could just be an educated guess from a well informed
> later source.

The first printing of the myth (in WF) does not have an attribution,
but it does state that sources vary. I believe Jeff's is just such a

> Were Tada and Esrolia believed to be married by early Orlanthi?

IMO, no. I doubt they have myths of their own about Tada. He would
be a useful potent outsider to hang a dodgy genealogy upon, however.

> Who did they believe to be the father of the twin wives?

Stating the father as a legitimising principle would be foolish, as
his presumably greater glory would detract from Vingkot's (and/or his
utter mythic irrelevance would make his unworthy of mention). Also, if
they're traditional Esrolite feminine offspring of the Goddess, they
could well have been parthenogenic (cf. the Holy Country Earth Temple
Cant, WF p.50).

I doubt there is an Elder Secret or Lost Truth hidden in this myth.
More likely, it's a bunch of Orlanthi bards mucking around in praise
of their glorious all-conquering monarchs, unwilling to accept that
Vingkot just bonked the first pair of local bints he came across...



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 23:12:37 EEST