From: David Cake (
Date: Wed 06 May 1998 - 10:23:07 EEST

Joerg and I discuss the Kitori.

>> At this time many of the Kitori lived on the Shadow
>>Plateau. The OOO allowed non-trolls to settle there, and one of
>>those who took up the offer was Varzor Kitor, founder of the
>>Kitori tribe proper, who attracted most of the darkness worshipping
>>humans of Kethaela to his new tribe.
>They lived upon the Plateau?
        Well, some of them did. There may have been Kitori living other
places in addition, there may have been other darkness worshipping humans
that didn't associate themselves with Kitor specifically but that were
allied with the OOO.

>I prefer the Kitori to have sided with the rest of Kethaela, and to have
>helped Arkat. Who but they would actively pursue the cult of Black Arkat
>"somewhere in Heortland", or, when Greg was asked directly where to find
>the House of Black Arkat, "in Nochet".
        Yes, I think it makes a lot more sense for a variety of reasons.

>>>It is hard to tell when the Kitori took in trolls into their tribe.
>>Our working hypothesis was that the Kitori retreated to the Shadow
>>Plateau with the OOO. He had granted non-trolls the right to live there
>>early in the first age. The current Kitori lands were the lands of a troll
>>tribe who allowed the humans to settle, not the other way around.
>What do you call "current Kitori Lands"? Their refuge in the Troll Woods
>or the land they occupied before Tarkalor and his alliance sent them to
        I think the trolls have historically occupied the troll woods,
probably since the first age, and that was what I meant by the current
Kitori lands. I'm not really sure exactly when or why the Kitori influence
over the surrounding (now Volswaxi) area came about.

>Let me see: If the Kitori humans of the First (and Second) Age lived
>atop the Shadow Plateau, they would have had to leave it after Belintar
>smashed the Obsidian Palace and covered all the Plateau with a thick
>layer of infertile black glass dust.
        I'm assuming it happened earlier, and thus for different reasons,
as the Kitori are mentioned (in approximately the same area as now) in the
founding of the Colymar story in the CHDP. Though that reference is of
slightly dubious veracity, it does imply that the Kitori existed before the
fall of the OOO.

>They needn't have restrained their territory to the top of the plateau
>even then. The Kitori started out as a warlike tribe, and still have
>this reputation.

        I think the Kitori of the second age where no longer particularly
warlike. And they are farmers and traders as well as warriors. They may
well have extended their territory well beyond the plateau.

>>They fought alongside Arkat and Kwaratch Kwang against Palangio.
>And probably already earlier, during Palangio's siege of Shadow Plateau
>(which lasted at least 40, maybe up to 70 years).

>>I saw the foundation of the modern Kitori taking place in the mid
>>second age. It is a conscious attempt to make the human Kitori part of the
>>ruling troll clans, by a magic 'marriage' between the tribal king and troll
>Did they marry into one of the ruling clans, or into a clan with
>ambitions to become a ruling clan? What were the motivations for the
>troll clan to accept this magical marriage? Neither profit nor a fair

>number of fierce warriors would overcome the typical racial antipathy
>without there being some urgent need, unless they had the Only Old One
>as active matchmaker.
        To be honest, I'm not sure. There had to have been some pressing
advantage to the trolls, but I'm not sure what it was. I have several
theories, but none are entirely satisfying.

>>The Kitori consist of several troll clans, one human clan (called
>>'the Human clan'), and several mixed clans. I believe the troll clans are
>>the original inhabitants of the troll woods, the human clan is the original
>>founding clan of the modern Kitori, and the mixed clans are clans that
>>joined later as refugees from the Pharoah.
>Mixed clans: so when the Pharaoh made his conquests, refugees approached
>the Kitori, and were assigned to troll clans willing to take in humans?

        There were troll refugees as well. But basically. It was to the
advantage of all the powers that be, effectively locking the refugess out
of the main (troll and human) ruling clans.

>I'm not sure I like this late date as the origin of the mixed clans, IMO
>they should have been in existance already earlier, so that the refugees
>could have followed the earlier mixed clans' example.
>(Sounds a bit like the Kitori policy was: "You want to remain a human
>only clan? Welcome to our tributary clans, you'll settle there, give
>annual tribute, and we'll protect you when we can. You want permanent
>protection? Do as the ... did, and join a troll clan. They will take
>care of you, and you of them.")
        I like the reasoning. Its possible that some mixed clans were
formed earlier, imitating on a smaller scale the ritual that founded the



- --
David Cake <>
Starfish Technologies Pty Ltd <>
ACN 076 426 714 Tel: +61-8-94760244

    Consultants in Unix, Mac OS & internetworking technologies


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