From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Wed 06 May 1998 - 02:04:58 EEST

Joerg Baumgartner:

>Arim's relations among the Grazers:
>Wyrm's Footnotes p.22

>"Some of the immigrants had relations among the Grazers."

Is there some reason for the free quote? It actually reads:

'Among those who fled were some with relations among the
Grazelanders of Dragon Pass.'

>The text continues in the same paragraph:
>"Arim the Pauper was ..."

Wrong. The very _next_ sentence states:

'While living in exile among the Horse-tribe, Arim the Pauper met
Sarana-Tor, High Priestess of the Shaking Earth'.

>Doesn't even explicitely state that Arim himself had relations among the

No. But it does strongly imply that and it also mentions that
having relations among the Horse-tribe is possible.

>After over 200 years of no possible contact with the Pure Horse People
>in Prax, and little incentive to have before, I doubt that the relations
>were the horse-riders of the Grazer tribe.

You are flatly contradicted by the mention that some of the immigrants
had relations among the grazelanders. Little more can be added save
that the Orlanthi and the Grazers are capable of having geneaologies
reaching back more than 300 years.

>Much more likely did they have relations among the slaves of the Grazer

Why did the Horse people not enslave him then? 'Oi! I'm seeking
refuge among your folk. I think I can recognize some relatives
among the serfs that you're whipping.'

Danny Bourne:

Me>>Why is it that given that some Grazers are descended from Pain
>>Centaurs, the Grazers must change their rites and myths, completely
>>forget their former history (to the point of Amnesia) and pretend
>>that they were former centaurs. This is beyond a joke.

>In a lengthy discussion with Greg, he told me that the Grazers have
>disavowed their 'true' history - ie that the majoraty of the Grazers are
>from the remanants of the Pure Horse Tribe that were taken prisoner at the
>battle of Alavan Argay and then subsequently escaped the Black Net that was
>placed on them.

This is somewhat mixed. The Pure Horse Tribe taken from the Black
Net were POWs after the battle and were rescued by Derik Furman
to populate the Pol Joni Tribe and became Orlanthi worshipping
Cattle Bastards. The survivors who fled into Dragon Pass were

'mostly children guarded by the elderly and a few women and maimed
warriors unfit to fit in the last battle' RoC.

>The assumption is that there must have been an indigenous
>group of Sun (Kargzant) worshipping nomads already in the Grazelands
>area - which was supposed to be devoid of any humans since the
>Dragonkill War and that the two factions assimilated.

I doubt this. The Grazer's King List (KoS p225) cites one Ironhoof
the King who is not the Centaur and who is implicitly said not to
have been born in Dragon Pass. IMO the indigenous group was the
Pain Centaurs who had met with the Grazers and then quested to be
like them.

>but the fact is that the almalgm took on the myths
>and beliefs of the Pain Centaurs and largely forgot about their
>ignominious near-destruction at the hands of the Black Net and

Nevertheless some memories of those events still remain. The
FHQ gained her powers after found her 'sisters, who had been
missing for many years.' Likewise many romans in recounting

the myth of Horatius Cocles standing firm on the bridge against
the horde of Lars Porsena and thus saving the City of Rome were
aware that there was a tradition that Lars had captured the City.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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