From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@voyager.co.nz)
Date: Thu 07 May 1998 - 15:10:07 EEST

Joerg Baumgartner:

>I defined Heortland as the land of the Heortlings, covering Kerofinela
>and southern Peloria [based on] Previous discussions, partly in private.
>It seems like a fair definition of the term, doesn't it?

Umath doesn't come from Umathela so merely because a name _seems_
obvious does not make it so.

>> Tessele is a Caladralander Heroine, Vogarth has been stated by
>> Stevie to be Esrolian. Ergo Heort comes from Heortland.

>In which borders? Of course Heort came from Heortland.

The borders given in the Holy Country Map. I think by summoning
heroes, Arkat is dependant on the _local_ mythic geography rather
than using the heroes of a culture.

>> Where do you get the idea that Heortland was completely
>> unoccupied before the Hendrieki?

>If you ask Shannon Appel, Heortland was a Chaos Waste prior to Hendriki
>settlement (cf. discussion on the digest a few moons ago, or his
>excellent "History of the Kingdom of Night" appearing soon in Tradetalk
>#4). I'm a moderate...

Prax is a Chaos Waste yet people live there. I'm even of the opinion
that the People of God Forgot were Orlanthi whose demigod founder
disappeared when the Print erupted. They then fled to the valley of
Refuge and from there colonized the Isles with their enforced Atheism.

>> why could the Machine City not have dominated the people
>> of Heortland from the time of its founding to the Machine City
>> Wars?

>IMO the cities of Locsil, Jadnor and Lylket were founded soon after
>Hrestol Arganitis explored Dragon Pass. I prefer to think that the
>cities were established with a modicum of treaties rather than planted
>there through brute force, and only slowly began to corrupt the
>surrounding lands (none as bad as Locsil, though).

What's the difference between the end result of slow corruption
and domination?

>>>This is quite explicite to me: Four large tribes [in Heortland], one
>>>of which has accepted Malkioni traits. Three haven't.

>> Read on. The source also goes on to say:

>:Instead of "thanes", the _Hendreiki_ warriors are called "knights",
>:and are armed to fight in the same manner as their western overlords.
>:But _Heortland_'s knights are not a class of nobles, just another
>:class of the free classes (my emphasis-PHM).

>Where were you when I fought the establishment wars for the Aeolian
>Church of Heortland? I could have used your emphasis then!

I only subscribed to the digest when people were coming back
from Convulsion '94. Sorry.

>To address your question: None of the Sartarite warriors are called
>knights. This indicates that they didn't share the Malkioni influence
>when they emigrated.

Or that the position of knights was created after they left.

>> 1) _All_ the tribes of Heortland are 'civilized Orlanthi'.

>Defined in Genertela Players Book as "tribal" organisation.

I don't think that refers to the civilization score of the

>> 2) Heortland and Hendreiki are used interchangeably.

>If the Hendriki knights are the only knights in Heortland, there is no
>reason not to interchange the terms.

Given that the Heortlanders bend over backwards to ensure the
Knights are one of the free classes, there seems to be very
little difference between the Knight and the Thane.

>> 3) The Hendreiki tribe originally inhabited the region now inhabited
>> by four main tribes.

>Let me see if I understand Peter's approach: The Hendriki took in all
>the refugees after the fall of the EWF and integrated them in their
>somewhat feudal system. Then, when Belintar crops up almost 300 years
>later, the old people remember the good old time and ditch the traces of
>Malkionism, and march off into Dragon Pass. At some unknown date, the
>Hendriki tribe falls apart into four separate tribes, all feudal.

Roughly correct. I don't think the Hendriki would have allowed
refugees to maintain their old tribal loyalties when they migrated
in. I also think the division of the Hendriki into four tribes
comes as a result of Belintar's reforms and this also accounts
for the knighthood.

>You know, this is fairly close to my starting position in 1993/94. I let
>myself be convinced to a compromise solution after almost a year of
>heated debates, including Greggings. And now I find myself on the other

Life's a dogshow (according to Pam).

- --Peter Metcalfe


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