More Malkionism

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Tue 12 May 1998 - 14:39:27 EEST

Simon Hibbs:

JL>>Do you think that a chaotic can be a worshipper of the Invisible
>>God, for instance?

>They're called Borists.

Base slander. Borists are freer from the taint of chaos than your
average gloranthan.

Julian Lord:

Me>>If we are to describe the Brithini as Orthodox, we would be
>>defining the mainstream Malkioni churches (Rokari, Hrestoli
>>and Sedalpists) as heterodox which is a most unsatisfactory
>>state of affairs IMO.

>Your opinion obviously differs from that of an inhabitant
>of Old Brithos who might very well consider the Rokari,
>Hrestoli and Sedalpist churches as heterodox.

The people of Old Brithos are missing presumed sleeping with the
fishes. We are not obliged to take their feelings into

>Are the Malkioni somehow *righter* than the Brithini from a
>cross-cultural POV?

I said nothing about rightness. I merely said the modern
Malkioni and not the Brithini should be considered the benchmark
of orthodoxy in Malkionism. Since the definition of being orthodox
is adhering to accepted conventional views _and_ that there are far
more Malkioni than there are Brithini (even if the People of Old
Brithos suddenly showed up), I see no problem in calling the

mainstream Malkioni churches orthodox.

Joerg Baumgartner:

Me>>Instead I would posit the existance of spiritual
>>realms beneath Solace (a la the Muslim Seven Heavens) and (to
>>borrow from Dante) people these with Saints who exist at the same
>>time in Solace.

>I like this. I'd propose the number three rather than seven.

I'll have to disagree here. From a beatific vision of Greg's
Wastepaper Basket, IMO there's about six spiritual realms above
the material world. The highest, corresponding to the Hidden
Mover, was only discovered recently (about the time of the closing
according to Enclosure). Previously the Realm of the One Mind
which was uncovered by the God Learners held that honor.

>>The lower realms are populated by the more worldly Saints and
>>whom are more easily accessible whereas the higher realms have
>>more aloof saints who are more powerful yet more difficult to

>The important thing should be that these realms are not open for
>heroquesting, though - not even the most advanced Jrusteli heroquesters
>should have even a chance to visit the actual place, only to get visions.

Again, I'll have to disagree. The God Learners actually uncovered
truths about God through heroquesting (albeit through humanistic
heroquesting as opposed to theistic or mystic heroquestings according
to the latest Greg Sez). If you are worried that the God Learners
tried to rewrite their Heavens as they are said to have done to other
parts of the Other Side, then I'll bite the bullet and say they did.

However what was remade in their own image was their perception of
their Heavens rather than the Heavens themselves.

>Not the person who contacts the saints may enter these realms, but the
>realms may touch the person. Otherwise, the entire Malkioni church would
>have been made a scam by the God Learners.

I fail to see what the concern is. The God Learners _were_ the
Malkioni Church. In reordering the heavenly realms, they were
rescuing the Untarnished Message of the Invisible God that had
hitherto been lost through the lies of the Serpent Kings, Arkat
and Gbaji. Later they fell into error and began populating their
heavens with pagan gods. After they fell, the Malkioni began
purging their heavens of such falsehoods (the best RW parallel
would be the Protestant renunciation of Purgatory).

>In fact, the absence of real God Learners in this realm should be

I think there will be plenty of saints who should be recognizable
as having been God Learners.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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