Saints and Solace

From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@voyager.co.nz)
Date: Sat 16 May 1998 - 08:05:49 EEST


Jose Ramos:

Me>>I'm bemused. What do doubtful and fabricated saints have to do with
>>Boddhisvattvas?

>If I remember correctly, local gods and some "dubious" candidates are
>included among the boddhisatvas.

This is not unique to Mahayanna buddhism and can be found in
Christainity, Islam and Hinduism among other religions. Case

in point: Utnapishtum, a sumerian hero who survived the flood
ends up with a name change in the Bible.

Me>>Let's say a Ralian says that their Saints Arkat and Orland dwell in
>>Solace (IMO this is what most Ralians believe). What proof can you
>>show to the Ralians that those Saints are _not_ in Solace? To take
>>a RW parallel, what proof can you show to the Muslims that Mohammad
>>is _not_ in Heaven?

>Arguing as a rokari iconoclast, we know that Solace is the final bliss, from
>where you don't return. If a prayer to a saint is answered, it is not by
>those blessed who are in Solace, but by demons bent on misleading the
>faithful from the narrow way to Solace.

So the miraculous manifestations (which a Rokari would know by
heart) of Saints Rokar and Hrestol are naught but demons? How
does one distinguish between a manifestation from a Saint in
Solace and a manifestation of a fake Saint?

>And my Otkorioni "know" St. Orland is not in Solace, but in his Cloud
>Castle (somewhere in the Heavens)

What prevents the Otkorioni from saying that the Cloud Castle is
a part of Solace? When synthesizing traditions, people are more
likely to conflate topics rather than keep them seperate and pure.

>>If they are not in Solace, then how do they gain the ability
>>to work miracles?

>From the Invisible God, of course. It is Its power anyway. If you are a
>Holy Saint, you can go to Solace, or work as a conduit between the IG and
>Glorantha, to help the faithful.

What prevents Saints from doing both (ie going to Solace _and_
working as a conduit)?

>If they are in Solace, how can they answer to mundane needs?

Being in Solace didn't stop the Invisible God from creating the
world.

- --Peter Metcalfe

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