Where are the Saints!

From: Jose Ramos (jose@kobo.es)
Date: Tue 19 May 1998 - 18:51:09 EEST


Let's begin with the no gloranthan content, and then will tackle Peter's
arguments.

According to my dictionary, weasel is either a small carnivore or a
despicable, sneaky person (and no other meaning as a noun). As I doubt Peter
expects small carnivores to have access to the internet I consider myself
insulted.

Now to the meat of the matter.

First of all Joerg, who has a personal stake in the matter, and has given a
good idea for a mistery cult in Malkioni lands.

>So the power to set a sword blade to flames whenever drawn comes from
>within the follower of St. Gerlant?
>
>BTW, is there an accompanying geas for this gift? I.e. will this
>blessing work if the blessed person commits serious breaches against the
>laws of chivalry (which is what Gerlant epitomizes, IIRC)?

IMO it would be lost if the holder believed he/she was unworthy of following
Gerlant. But while he thinks he is in the right... he can kill you with it.
Ready for a duel?

Peter.

I think there is nothing to be won while Peter runs in circles rejecting
other people ideas. By the way, the reason we keep trying to make you change
your mind it is because we value and respect your contributions to
gloranthan lore. But patience has a limit.

        Two saints are accepted by all sects to have been taken to Solace.
As I mentioned before, something exceptional happened then, that has not
happened again since. For the rest, there are disagreement reigns. And

anyway, what kind of experience it is that shows beyond the shadow of a
doubt that an individual has gone to Solace?

        A saint sets an example to follow. As you follow the saint's steps,
you take some of his her characteristics, such as the right to wear arms
being a woman, or feeling content with your station in life, or making your
sword flame with the fire of justice, or just finding battle funny.

        Malkioni are humanists, and the blessings of the saints are
transformations of the self (even in the case of St. Gerlant, it is the
holder who makes the sword flame, and not the sword, which will not flame
for another). That is why I don't think Orland gives the blessing of

throwing thunderbolts (a well known use of evoke lightning) but instead
blessings to enhance the individual: The power to recognize mistakes you
have made, or to fight against injustice. Most henotheists will use Orlanth
as a theist cult if they want thunderbolts.

        And I believe the henotheists know the saints are not in Solace
because they can contact them, as they can contact some of their ancestors,
who are still looking forward to reach Solace. Of course the Saints in
Solace faction rejects their saints as false precisely because they can be
contacted. All good and right.

        And the rest is just an argument of preferences and what sources to
accept, follow, or discard. If I cannot convince Peter, I hope my players
at least agree with me, and then that some of my fellow digesters find some
use in my ideas.

        And I expect this thread stops here, as the positions have not
changed in the last exchange of mails. I stand by the end of my last mail:

> I will keep some sects believing you can be a Saint before dying (and
being >in Solace), some that believe the blessings come from the own
faithful, some >that believe in boddhisatva like saints hovering just
outside Solace, and >some that hold that Saints are those extraordinary
individuals that manage >to interact with the world _despite_ being in Solace.

        Jose

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