More on Meldeks

From: Julian Lord (
Date: Thu 21 May 1998 - 09:44:18 EEST

Joerg Baumgartner:

Who apparently agrees with much that I've said, which is a nice

Answering Ian Welsh :

> I don't see what Monty Hall has to do with Orlanthi sorcery users.

Neither do I.

> Do you fear Wind Lord Adepts? They'd be fairly ineffective, even if
> there were rules to allow them.

Any rules I've ever seen on meta-magic, ie some Greg stuff and the RQ4
discussion thing, are based on the idea that mortals have a physical
body and a divine portion. (Brithini and a few others perhaps not
fitting into such a blanket description ...)
Briefly, an Adept Wind Lord would have to cut his soul into two pieces.
This means that, yes, Adept Wind Lords would be very ineffective. (I'm
simplifying. Read "Sorcery used with other magic types" in Sandy's
sorcery for a better description of mixed magics.)
Simultaneous possession of a Fetch and of sorcerous Presence is, AFAIK,
virtually impossible, BTW. A meta-magical reason why sorcerors cannot be
shamans and vice-versa. Probably transgressed by a few weirdoes
somewhere in Glorantha, though ...

> Successful warlords like Greymane or his sons are quite certain to
> have sorcerers serving them.

Are they? The Solanthi are fairly ordinary Orlanthi, AFAIK, aside from
their curious relationship with swine. In my campaign, Greymane doesn't
need sorcery because he has HQ powers. Also, the Solanthi are hostile
towards the Trader Princes of south Maniria. (Who have conquered the
mouth of the Solanthi River.) I play that this translates as a hostility
towards sorcery, which Greymane as Tribal Leader can't easily bypass.

Greymane *does* however have sorceror allies among the Ditali, who are
an orlanthi tribe with sorcery-using leaders. Don't know very much about
them, though ...

> Apple Lane has Third Eye Blue iron-smith sorcerers (herding goats)

Heh! This is correct. Goats, also, are filthy animals.

Answering me:

> > One thing that seems to have been inferred by other contributors to
> > this thread: "sorcery" means "western sorcery". (Am I wrong?)
> Sorcery as in "a magic system based on the Logicians' world-view and
> magics" does mean western sorcery, yes. It has been spread throughout
> Genertela by various means, the God Learners ... SNIP ...
> I might accept another source of sorcery if you can give me a
> plausible origin, but I don't know of any.

Kralori mysticism, East Isles magic, and Dwarf magic are all non-western
sorcery or sorcery-like traditions. Dwarf magic, and some form of
mysticism similar to Eastern sorcery could, conceivably, have engendered
certain magical practises among the orlanthi.
Did this happen? Don't know, myself. I do think, though, that some
Meldeks, instead of doing a poor man's version of western logical
magics, do a poor man's version of Eastern mysticism ...
This is yet to be described, which doesn't help us much. (It's based on
the use of mystical Tools, though.)

> > The existence of orlanthi sorcerors (barring the few isolated cultural
> > cultural exceptions like Chalana Arroy, maybe Issaries, etc..?)
> > hasn't been demonstrated.

> That's because almost all of our information on Orlanthi comes from
> regions recently colonized by religious regfugees ...

We are in agreement.
RQ3 sorcery also stinks, which is big reason number two.

> In what way would this be different from humanist sorcery?

Hmm. You're right. The differences wouldn't be in the difficulty of
gaining Presence, etc.. The Arts, and the Methods used for Meldek
sorcery might be different. I think I'm going the other way now, though,
and my opinion would be that there are various kinds of Meldek among the
orlanthi, some of whom emulate western sorcery, some of whom don't.

> > Making enemies of most of his friends, family, and neighbours, of
> > course,
> You mean, like joining a Humakti regiment doing service in Esrolia? Or
> joining the Sun Dome Templars? Or the Lunar Army? Running away with a
> Donandar circus? ...


> > with his evil heterodoxy ...
> Heterodoxy: maybe. Evil: why? "Because he's different from us, we're
> no longer good enough for him"?

Sorry. Useless relic from the "orthodoxy" vitriol phase. Discard it.

> Arroin is a patron of surgeons,

This was one of my proposals; I'm intrigued; have you come across the
idea somewhere else?

> A "Cult of Arroin" with hierarchy, worship services and Holy Days is
> fairly unlikely IMO, unless you have a leading medical facility
> training surgeons for all the lands around it.

The "Cult of Arroin" as such is dysfunctional, (except among the
aldryami) because Arroin grants no acces to the Hero Plane or to the God
Plane through worship or Rune Magic. In this, at least, worship of
Arroin somewhat resembles worship of the Invisible God.


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