Saints and Malkioni metaphysics

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Fri 22 May 1998 - 06:50:02 EEST

Mikko Rintasaari:

Me> PREMISE: Good Malkioni go to Solace after they die.
> PREMISE: Saints are Good Malkioni.

> CONCLUSION: Saints are in Solace.

>Nice and simple, but premise no: 2 is, not wrong, but misleading.
>Replace with - "saints are extraordinary Malkioni"

Extraordinary in what respect? Bad or Good?

>Conclusion becomes: It's not self evident that saints are in Solace.

When someone says 'All Men are Mortal. Socrates was a Man. Therefore
Socrates is Mortal', do you interject 'since Socrates was an
extraordinary man, it is not self-evident that Socrates is mortal'?

Bear in mind that at least four or five saints are stated in
the literature to be in Solace, the onus still is on you (or
anybody who wishes to take up the challenge) to demonstrate why
Malkioni should believe that Saints are not in Solace.

>And these premises and conclusions still hinge on the Malkioni beliefs,
>and the malkioni don't _know_, they just have their faith.

The Malkioni _know_ just as much as the Theists do. IMO trying to
portray the Malkioni as a society which gains its magical power by
having faith (per Occam) as a virtue is unsupportable.


The Orlanthi knows spells taught by his God. The Rokari utters
prayers to the Invisible God that are answered.

The higher magics of the Orlanthi are powered by Orlanth
himself. The Rokari know that mortal Saints who placed
their faith in the Invisible God can perform deeds that
outshine a pagan god.

To feel the presense of his God, the Orlanthi must undertake
a pantomine act to receive the hallucination. The Rokari
however merely has to go to church and pray at mass, thereby
receiving spiritual reassurance from the Invisible God.

The Laws of Orlanth are misremembered by a smelly drunk who
can be bought for a cow or even a pint of beer. The Invisible
God has commanded that his Laws be written down for all time
and interpreted by Holy Men so that the faithful will not fall
into Manifest Error.

In keeping Orlanth's laws, the Orlanthi is raided by fellow
Orlanthi every summer. In following the laws of the Invisible
God and paying his tithe and taxes regularly, the Rokari lives
secure in an orderly cosmos where he has nothing to fear from his
fellow Rokari.

The Orlanthi claims that Orlanth is the King of all Gods. Yet
Orlanth has rewarded his faithful with crushing defeat on the
battlefield and so the Orlanthi has to pay taxes to those damned
Lunars. The Rokari know the Invisible God, Creator of the Cosmos,
has rewarded his followers for adhering to his ways. Accordingly
the heralds announcethe the latest victory over the damnable Ralians.

How can anybody say in the face of this that the Malkioni have no
'proof' for their ways?

- --Peter Metcalfe


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