From: Simon Phipp (simon.phipp@walshwestern.com)
Date: Fri 22 May 1998 - 12:51:09 EEST

Simon Hibbs:

> >How is illumination different from the knowledge generated by the
> Yelmalio
> >hero who HQs to the Hill of Gold so many times that he ends up
> >changing
> >the myth, and thus reality and truth?

> Why would a Yelmalion want to change his own myth? Surely if he does
> that then he's cast aside any lessons he might have learned from it?

Not really, all he would be doing is show that Yelmalio was not
always beaten at the Hill of Gold, not a major change, surely. :-)

> In order to complete the Hill of Gold quest the Yelmalion must
> personify the ideals of his culture, sticking to Right Action
> despite every insult, defeat and humiliation inflicted upon him. It
> is a trial by ordeal and nayone who completes it successfuly has
> proved their devotion to Yelmalio under the most extreme of
> circumstances. It's a lesson of obedience and duty and is of a
> wholly different order to Illumination.

This is the argument for all "Loser" Quests. "We do it to prove our
piety". It is, of course, a load of rubbish. HeroQuestors perform
"Loser" Quests so that the Quest may eventually change to become a
Victory Quest.

Frank Rafaelsen:
> >Strange. I would say that Glorantha is the only world that open up
> >for this view to any degree. Where else can you change ancient
> >history if
> you
> >are a powerfull HeroQuester?

Ancient History is never changed by HeroQuesting. Myth is changed by
HeroQuesting. In the sense that GodTime activity is counted as
"Ancient History" then your statement is true. However, most people
try to make the distinction. History really began with Time.

Richard Develyn:

> How will we see the White Moon - Yelm blinds us when we look
> skyward?

In the same way as we see the Red Moon when Yelm rides through the
Sky. The Celestial Beings can be seen during the Day becuase their
Light is of the same order as that of Yelm. So, the Red Moon can be
seen during the day, as will the White Moon, as are certain other
planets and maybe a few important stars.

>1) Is my reasoning about going round full circle correct? In
> particular,
>are you ultimately reliant on inaccurate written / oral material to
> find
> out what happened in the past?

Yes, but you can also question those who were there, of course they
may lie to you. HeroQuesting tells you what happened but does not
tell you whether what has happened has changed.

>2) Can you use divination as a research tool?

Yes, but the Deity can only tell you what it knows, in its own
opinion and if it wants to tell you. Deities do not lie through
Divination but they don't have to tell the truth.

>3) Can you talk to spirits as a way of research history? Do they
> actually tell you about what really happened in the past or do they
> just
> tell you what the current myths are?

Of course you can, it has happened many times before. The Sazdorf
Clan, for instance, was created partly through the summoning of
ancestors in order to establish a bloodline and connection to the

However, the spirits can only tell you what they knew before. If the
myth has changed they cannot tell you that. Of course, if the myth
has changed then you may be able to recogbise it from their version
of events. Also, they may tell you their versions in such a way that
you misunderstand what actually happened. Finally, spirits can lie to
you, so don't trust everything they say.

Richard Develyn:
> > > How do priests find out what the myths relating to their gods
> > > are?

Nick Brooke:
> > What kind of priest does not know what myths relate to his god?

David Dunham:
> No priest of Orlanth prior to Harmast knew the (complete)
> Lightbringer's Quest.

Good point. Even though the major myths of a deity may be known to
somebody amongst all temples, all myths are not known to every
temple. I would go so far as to say that no temple (or at least very,
very few temples) has knowledge of all muths of a major deity. What
the likes of Harmast did was to travel to many temples and learn the
local myths, then sew them together to reveal the original major
myth. Even then, myths may change through HeroQuest. More truths may
be revealed, Mythic Research uncovers lost God Time events which are
then available locally but do not always disseminate through the
entire culture.

By the way, I am in the process of updating my Web Site, adding more
articles. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of running my Index Page
through Word to make things easier to change (it didn't) and this
trashed my formats completely. Bear with me while I slowly change it
back. If anyone is interested, I am up to 100 articles or so and look
to push to 120 by the end of the summer (20 articles in 3 months is
low, I admit, but I type and think slowly).


Simon Phipp (one of the Simons)


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