orb, Pelorian Deities

From: Pam Carlson (carlsonp@wolfenet.com)
Date: Mon 08 Jun 1998 - 11:05:28 EEST

Peter writes:

> And where is the Orb now? Hence celebrating it's 'Recovery' is a bit
> like the Byzantines celebrating the conquest of Britian.

For some reason,I was thiningthat the orb had something to do with the Eye
of Manimat. I am probably mixed up on that one, as my GROY is languishing
under a deep pile of canine genetics books.

> The Dara Happans are not innovative heroquesters at all, especially after

> the fall of the Khordavu dynasty. Secondly the quest is associated with
> Antirius whose cult has diminished ever since Ordanestyu became emperor.

True enough, but where is your sense of MGF? Surely the Atirius cult got
subsumed into the cult of Yelm, and many of its traditions survived a bit
longer. After all , there were was Avivath, (running around a long time
after Khordavu's reign), a Antirian beggar who smote evil emperors with
righteous skyspears. What a guy! And isn't an orb of some sort still part
of the imperieal regalia? It might not be the *same* orb, but *somebody*
had to get it from *somewhere*...

>Likewise the cult of the Ten Princes while prominent in the Khordavu era
will have
> been displaced in favour of the companions of the current dynastic
> founder whether it be Ordanestyu or Magnificus.

I like to think that the princes' feats were cool enough to be remembered
for a long time. Do all heros have to have cults to be remembered and

> The trouble with this is that there is a great big gap between the
> Lunar heroquesters and the Ten Princes. The lunars can only learn
> what the ten princes did through historical methods as there is not
> a continous line of tradition between the Ten Princes and the Lunars
> (because of the interruptions caused by the Theyalans, the Spolites,
> the EWF and the Carmanians).

True again, but perhaps a little T&J could come in handy there.


Chris asks about comparative religions: Peloria vs Sartar

The only write up of Shargash I know of appears in Enclosure 1.
Dendara/Entekos is a sky-fertility-matriarchal goddess, and her worship is
briefly described in Gods of the Lunar Empire, again in Enclosure 1.
(Available from your local Tales rep.) The main Ernalda analog for Peloria
would likely be Oria, though there are dozens of regional earth fertility
goddesses in Peloria.
(We an Entekos moment today here in Seattle, with a lovely, gentle rain
falling through the sunshine on a warm aftrnoon....)

> how Dara Happans and Carmanians view Orlanthi deities from Sartar and

Preferably through a telescope. Honestly, they probably see them as the
same savage gods that were worshippped by the southern barbarian hordes
long ago - Lanatum, Orlantus, Umatum, and Elamalus are all mentioned in
Groy, not very positively. Of course, more enlightened (ie, Lunarized)
DH's and Carmanians may be slightly more accepting.

> I'd be curious to see, say, how a Shargashi warrior from Alkoth would
view a Sartarite tribesman

As lunch, mostly.

>and his strange gods,

On the long list of gods that Shargash thwacked. (Elemalus, Umatum,
Oralant, etc). You have to remember, the average Alkothi is not your
namby-pamby cultural relatavist type. Foreigners are good for rounding up
and sacrificing, and that's about it. Your *really enlightened* (ie,
Lunarized) Shargashi might be a bit less single minded and indulge in some
metaphysical quanderies, (is Oralant worship a degenerate from of Shargash
worship?), and might have a passing interest in studying the Orlanthi -
sort of like how little kids will stare at ants before they step on them.

>and vice versa.

Well, many Heortlings in Sartar and Tarsh have tales of how Vingkot
victoriously fought the Dara Happans, and no doubt call their Sun god an
Evil Emperor. (Not because he is a sun, but because they have heard stories
of how DH society works, with slavery, the subjugation of women, and trying
to conquer the Heortlings in the First Age.)

The Heortlings probably equate Shargash with Vadrus, as S appears to be a
storm god but certainly lacks any of the social graces/organization they
associate with Orlanth. The Orlanthi of South Peloria (Aggar & Saird) must
have a clearer idea of who Shargash is: an ENEMY storm god, with terrible,
nasty worshippers who are unreasonable, scary, good for nothing and best
left alone. THey may also consider them Vadrudi, but also likely know that
S is associated with the Red Planet, which I don't think Vadrus is. Perhaps
they think he is one of Vadrus' children, captured by the Evil Emperor and
twisted into something hideous.

>Are there any shared myths of Shargash and Orlanth, Godlearner-created or

Well, S crippled Elmal, and Oralant (the Selfish God) crippled Antirius
(and Yelmalio). Both slew Yelm, both went to the underworld and returned
w/ new life, both defeated a dragon, slit it open, and liberated something
or someone... but these are seperate myths, indigenous to their cultures,
not invented by the GL's. I doubt S's myths are even known to many
non-Alkothi. (See "GREG SEZ" on the Chaosium site for the most recent
Shargash stuff from Greg.)

>Dara Happens feel about the Cult of Yelmalio,

Quaint, barbarian imitation of a true sun god. Better than that
treacherous Elamalus fellow...

> it seems that some Dara Happans feel that Orlanth is a debased version of
the Great Destroyer. Peloria-philes, help me out!

I think that was mentioned as a modern Lunar view. Few traditional
Shargashi would even consider the thought. Shargash has a whole
underworld/death aspect that Orlanth lacks, and the Alkothi see that as
most important. Shargash's storm manifestation definately holds less
importance for them. While for the Heortlings, Orlanth is a social god
that saved the world, and is an important god of storm and breath, defines
masculinity & chieftainship, etc.

I've rambled on long enough. If you don't have the Enclosures, buy them -
both are full of great info and myths on Peloria AND the Orlanthi. (What a
coincidence - those are the topics the SFC is most intrested in....)



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