Date: Thu 11 Jun 1998 - 20:25:37 EEST

        While I am argueing with Peter, I think its worth continueing to
read on if you are interested in Dara Happan stuff - I'd appreciate some
feedback if I'm on the right track from fellow Dara Happa fans.

>> I think the Dara Happans may have recreated parts of the quest (ie
>>the part where 'Antirius the Undeceivable is not fooled by his invisible
>>Other'), but not known the whole story of the version where Antirius wins.
>How can they know the story where Antirius wins when they know that
>such a thing has never happened?

        First, did they know the story of how Antirius is the Undeceivable
(which occurs at the Hill of Gold) before the successful quest for the Orb?
I think they did, but I see no firm evidence either way.
        Secondly - The Orb is the source of Justice, and Antirius is the
source of Justice. OF Course Antirius must eventually win, even if they do
not know how (actually, its more like 'of course Antirius would win if he
did the quest himself, but we aren't quite sure what he should do when we
take his place'). Antirius never fails, but when we attempt the quest in
his place, sometimes we imperfectly understand his suggestions, and by
failing wound him.

        Thirdly - to put it another way, the story where Antirius wins the
Orb happens when Antirius is part of Yelm. But we can still re-enact it, if
only we can work out the details, and do it just right.

>Going up the Footstool is part of the Ten Tests. The HoG quest
>is not part of the Ten Tests and is far more recent than the
>Ten Tests.

        The Hill of Gold quest is not the same as the going up the
Footstool quest, but that doesn't mean there isn't a relationship there.
The Orb should be at the top of the Footstool, and if it isn't you have to
resort to the Hill of Gold, a debased version for when the Orb is not where
it should be. But the two quests are related.

> What does a myth of Antirius have to do with becoming
>Emperor of Dara Happa?

        You know the answer to this one - the Orb of Authority is the
symbol of the Emperors authority. Antirius is 'bound by indissoluble binds
to the Emperors'.
        Now, ask yourself which is the first mention of gaining the Orb? Is
it the Hill of Gold? No. Its Yelm receiving the Orb. Then Murharzarm
receives the Orb. The original quest for gaining the Orb of Authority is
about ascending the Footstool, and is part of a series of quests where you
are tested by spirits.

        Now, suddenly the Orb is stolen by evil beings. Do you invent a
totally new quest, unrelated to the first one? No, you try and use the one
you have, except you know the regalia isn't at the top of the Footstool
anymore, and you know the bad guys have it. So you adapt the quest a
little, so that you are ascending a hill, and you face the bad guys along
the way. But it doesn't really work - but you keep trying until you get it

right, because you know that inevitably you will succeed, because
succeeding in the quest is the only way the universe can be put right.
        While I am speculating about the whole area, can I just go out on a
big limb here, and say that the Orb is symbolic of Authority (= Law,
Justice), and so is Antirius - what you are really questing for is Antirius
himself, who is justice. Antirius is the prize as well as the quest - once
you prove you are like Antirius, you prove you have the authority to rule.
The Hill of Gold quest for the Dara Happans is about trying to see the true
path (the path Antirius would take, because Antirius is undeceivable),

which is in a sense trying to prove that you ARE Antirius (= the source of
Justice= the Emperor), or at least that you can emulate Antirius and not
fall into any of the Wounding Errors (thus proving that you are more like
Antirius than you are like the rest of humanity). In a sense, the Orb IS
Antirius, by recovering it you have proven that you in touch with him. The
Hill of Gold proper (the one in Vanch) was never ascended by Antirius in a
purely mythic sense - it was ascended by heroes attempting to prove they

were like Antirius. But Antirius was obviously (as part of Yelm) capable of
passing all the tests, and was thus capable of ascending and claiming the
Orb of Authority.

>> But you can repeat the quest on a smaller scale - if you are a
>>Yelmic noble, and you lose your traditional regalia, you might attempt a
>>version of the Antirius quest to regain it. Repeating a quest on a smaller
>>scale to gain a smaller reward is a common pattern in Glorantha.
>Not all quests are meaningful on a smaller scale. Otherwise Frodo would
>have simply melted down a gold ring in a fire whenever he was in trouble.

        Would this example be somewhat overgeneralised to make a rhetorical
point perhaps? Frodo's quest probably works pretty well if repeated on a
smaller scale - if what you want to do is destroy a smaller scale Ring of
Power. Similarly, the Antirius Hill of Gold quest probably works pretty
well if what you want to do is recover an Orb of Authority. I doubt it

works well as a source of jewellery for ready cash, for example.




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