From: TTrotsky@aol.com
Date: Mon 03 Aug 1998 - 19:34:52 EEST
Sergio:
<< Peter Metcalfe:
> A Materialist does X and creates effect Y.
>
> A Shaman horsetrades with Spirit X and gets effect Y.
In other words, the Spirit does X and creates effect Y.>>
Which is doubtless how the Malkioni explain why spirit magic works.
However, the attitude and state of mind of the shaman and the materialist are
very different. The materialist magically affects the world without the
intercession of any other beings, or contacting the spirit/god plane, and
through the application of impersonal physical laws. The shaman, OTOH, does
his magic via intercession on the spirit plane, and does not believe in
impersonal materialisitic physical laws - to him the world is moved by the
actions of spirits with their own personalities and agendas.
<< And the shaman may use a spirit spell, which means that:
A Shaman does X and creates effect Y.>>
But in order to get the spirit spell in the first place, the shaman still
has to get it from a spirit. And the nature of 'X' in this statement is pretty
different for the shaman than it is for the materialist, because their view of
how the world works is so different.
<<> A Theist prays to God X and is rewarded with effect Y.
Which means that the God does X and creates effect Y.>>
Well, yes (although once again it isn't the same 'X' as the materialist's
'X') but that's not helpful from a game POV unless the God is a PC. What the
theist does and how he perceives the world are very different from the methods
and understanding of the materialist. Indeed, they are much the same as the
shaman, except that the relationship between the mortal and the spirit/god
plane is on a very different footing.
<<But in the RW believing in God is an act of faith, not of proof, precisely
because nothing proves the existance of God.>>
Malkionism is not Christianity. It has a strong streak of quasi-
It depends on your definition of 'material'. The spirit plane is material
I don't really agree with this. Its surely easier for the polytheists and
<< Certainly, only an handfull of very special people can attain the highest
And it is those rare people, I would argue, that are able to reach higher
scientific reductionism in it and does not rely as heavily on the concept of
'faith' IMO.
<<The spirit plane is no less 'material' than the mundane plane.>>
in that it is real and provable in Glorantha. But 'material' generally means
'physical as opposed to spiritual' - so by definition, the spirit plane is not
material in that sense.
<<it [Malkionism] allows a person to be more ready to understand the limits
of the material, and to try to reach an higher level of existence without the
constraints of matter.>>
animists to understand the limits of the material, because they deal with the
spiritual and 'higher levels of existence' every day.
reaches of Malkionism.>>
levels of existence without dying first, wheras such people are far less rare
among polytheists and animists. Sure, the Malkioni may aspire to transcend the
limits of the physical realm when they die and enter Solace (whereas
polytheists and animists generally don't) but in terms of how they do their
magic and how they understand the operating of this world they are very much
stuck in this world.
Forward the glorious Red Army!
Trotsky
Sergio
>>
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