From: Xavier SPINAT (spinat@poly.polytechnique.fr)
Date: Tue 04 Aug 1998 - 17:25:25 EEST
Well, on th subject of Luck/Fate, there would be too many of the=
recent mails to quote, so I'll try to express my views without actually=
replying to one or another.
*What is luck? Does it exist in Glorantha?
Well, first, there's obviously two meaning in this word.=20
The first of all, on which I think everyone agrees, is randomness.
It does exists in Glorantha. A good proof of this existence is the=
fact that most of the known game-system use dices... :) (sorry about=
that, I know some just don't use dices)
Of course a lot of things (in any world) has to be considered as=
random.=20
But, depending on how you think the world works, you can say randomness=
is part of the nature of the way things go OR you can say randomness=
results from the imperfect knowledge we have of the situation.=20
When you throw a dice, you can think that the result is intrinsically=
random or you can think that, if you somehow had a way to compute=
all the little parameters that will in some way have an influence=
on the result, then you would be able to determine exacty the outcome,=
but since such a computation is impossible, it's more practical=
to consider the outcome as random.
I think that the difference between those points of view is not what=
we have to discuss here. Whether probabilities are the TRUE model=
or just the best we can achieve is not a very easy debate.
Let's rather talk about luck's other aspect: good/bad luck.
It's somehow the negation of randomness in fact. If you consider=
that luck (as the outcome of random events) is somehow sentient,=
then you negate the meaning of true randomness, since everything=
becomes the outcome of some will.
If some people are "lucky" and others "unlucky" forever, then it=
avails to the same thing as fate, since there's no more randomness=
in it. Luck, as a control over randomness, is not really the opposite=
of fate.
I can understand that some people believe in lucky charms (how many=
players have their "lucky dices"!!). Superstitions about bad luck=
or good fortune are numerous. But what's the role of all this in=
Glorantha?
Well, I think superstitions are much more related to spirits than=
to "just luck". The people call upon gods, or heroes, or just spirits=
to enhance their odds and somehow to "fight" randomness and luck.=
People rely much more readily on fate than on luck, since one is=
liable and faithful while the other is treacherous and fickle.
Luck is not a very popular rune. See how many gods are related to=
it. Consider that true randomness is somehow related to Chaos and=
you'll have an idea of how people can think of it.=20
"Luck" has to be blind and impartial or cannot be "Luck". If you've=
been really lucky once, for no reason, then you somehow feel that=
you have more chances to be unlucky the next time. Somehow "luck"=
is something you cannot trust. With "luck", you never know how long=
good things will last...
*What about Fate?
=46ate is safer. If you're fated to do something, you somehow can=
rely on it. Well, it's written somewhere, it WILL happen. Fate is=
the effect of some strange, twisted but yet implacable will. Even=
if this will is not explainable or rationnal, it is something which=
allows you do do some serious and long-term planning.
Death is a good example of this. Everyone knows you have to die.=
It's common knowledge. It's a sure fact on which you can base your=
life, because, well, it's not gonna change just for you: that's=
the way things are.
=46ate is something you have to accept once and for all. That's it.
Well, as you might have guessed, IMO Fate is very depressing.
=46ate/Luck are opposed and both necessary in Glorantha.
With Luck comes the possibility of freedom and hope that things can=
somehow get better.
With Fate comes the possibility of safety and hope that things WILL=
get better.
You cannot live with either pure randomness or complete pre-determinism.
*Well, what's the point of all this for my players? What's all this=
debate got to do with my campaign?
It depends, of course, on how you play, but I often make the Luck/Fate=
issue the center of my campaign.
I'm often surprised by the way players react to this.
Give some hints of prophecies. Somehow, your characters are fated=
to win. Is that really encouraging? Of course not, because it just=
means that Fate (the GM) is going to manipulate everybody to make=
sure this happens. It's not fun for the players and it's certainly=
no good news to the characters: they have no choice.
In the other hand, if it is clear that Luck only will decide the=
outcome of a battle, whatever the odds, it's not satisfactory for=
the PCs either: what's their role in all this...
I enjoy giving my PCs a lot of false omens or of self-enforcing predictions.=
Sometimes they feel awfully manipulated, yet they managed to break=
free of the GM's planning...=20
sometimes they feel that they where very lucky (rolling an unexpected=
high number of criticals, for example) but discover that the outcome=
was exactly what the GM had planned...
I think the Luck/Fate has a lot to do with the game, with the "destiny"=
of adventurers.
So, IMO, to think there's no luck in Glorantha is a weird POV.
With no luck, no game session will ever really make sense. What's=
the point for the players to play if everything is planned: they'd=
rather just co-write a novel (which can be fine too). Luck/randomness=
is a way to ensure that not everything, not every event is the result=
of a will...=20
*What's the relationship between magic and Luck/Fate? between heroquest=
and Luck/Fate? between the gods and Luck/Fate?
Th usual spirit magic is definitively not some "luck" spell IMO:=
it's a "real" physical help and not some "probabilistic" manipulation.
The way I play it, some Luck/Fate magic exist.
The first Luck magic I invented was the usual: you get to re-roll=
some dices.
But I disliked this, because it's exactly the opposite of randomness.
All this "dice-controlling" magic is now rather Fate magic to me.
I then tried to have some measure of the player's luck: the way I=
did it was, when you want, you can reroll a dice until you got a=
satisfactory result. This gave you some kind of "bad luck" pool,=
which the GM could use whenever he thought it appropriate, forcing=
you to re-roll again, but this time keeping the worst result. This=
thing had some kind of "averaging" property that felt more "random".
But I'm not completely satisfied with this solution.
What I do know is that I make "luck-oriented" people roll for many=
things, making they subject to many random outcomes. Like bad/good=
surprise-encounters, bod/good reaction of people to their outfit,=
name, voice,... I just highly increased the number of "unlikely=
events", good AND bad, happening to (and around) them.
=46or the "fate-oriented" characters, I both enable them to have=
some control over the randomness of rolls. The control is always=
stronger if they committ themselves in advance (usually, at the=
beginning of the session, I asked them what they think they WILL=
do today... big fight, good encounter, exceptionnal bargain,...=
and if the situation arises, they get "one better success-level"=
-failure becomes success, success becomes special,...). To balance=
this, I also predict them some "dark" events in which they "shall"=
fail (or in which their opponents "shall" win). Somehow, those characters=
develop some sense of doom...
I somehow encourage also a "mastery-oriented" tendency, which I feel=
more rewarding for the characters. (I like the triple opposition=
of Luck/Fate/Mastery)
I somehow think that good heroquesting is usually a good re-enactement=
of well-established myths (which sounds awfully like Fate to me)=
and sometimes the discovery of "a new way" (which is either Mastery=
if it was intended and certainly Luck otherwise)... I don't mean=
to describe heroquesting so crudely, of course, but some connections=
are obvious. Just the name "Masters of Luck and Death", for example,=
sound very much like the three powers in one quest to me.
Gods, well, they are rather cautious about Luck/Fate. They prefer=
much more to rely on the Mastery rune, obviously, since much more=
gods are related to it than to the two others. I would say that=
gods are more on the side of Fate than Luck, but I'm not sure that=
means a lot...
Sorry about that way-too-long mail, but as you can guess, this issue=
is certainly the one I like to study the most.
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