From: Brian Tickler (tickler@netcom.com)
Date: Sun 09 Aug 1998 - 01:37:49 EEST
Well, I've been piling up various digests for a while now, not having time to
respond but not wanting to give up on the possibility of doing so...since
I have 35 digests in my "reply to these later" folder, I guess I'd better
get started now even though I still don't have enough time :)...
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:04:57 EDT
> From: <TTrotsky@aol.com>
> Subject: Is Glorantha Dying?
>
> Brian Tickler:
>
> <<, fan-published materials fading fast>>
>
> I find some difficulty squaring this statement with the fact that more
> fan-published materials are being released this year than at any time in the
> past (Enclosure, Questlines, TotRM, Tradetalk, Drastic: Darkness, Book of
> Tentacles). In what sense, exactly, are they fading?
My orginal post was confusing here...I was really referring to the
fan-published materials *on the digest*...the drop in output from the
"occasional" posters as opposed to the Digest Elite[tm], in my mind a sign
of a strong Glorantha core group, but with fence-sitters starting to
peel off...
> <<All these factors point towards a dwindling fan base, a seemingly
> impossible result given the loyalty of RQ/Glorantha fans through the lean
> years, but nevertheless, although many digesters will no doubt deny it, the
> promise of Hero Wars is not enough to sustain this community...people want
> RuneQuest *and* Glorantha, together...>>
>
> Clearly that's what you want. I couldn't care less what system
> officially-published Glorantha uses, so long as its not too dreadful. Which of
> us is more typical? Which of us will be more typical after Hero Wars comes out
> and has the potential to draw in new players? I don't know, and I suspect,
> neither do you.
You're right...all I know about is from direct interaction with other
Let me ask you a question...if you had $30 to your name (until next payday)
1. Hero Wars box set with rules and entry-level basic scenario
Let's assume here that you haven't photocopied the Pavis boxed set. Ok,
players and what I read here for the most part. Hm, well, the 4-5 play
groups I personally know/participate in, and the 20-25 RQ/Glorantha
players I have associated with have all stop playing Glorantha-based
games. I guess this could be just a fluke, but given that the number
*is* 100% and the fact that these groups are mostly in the Bay Area or
elsewhere in California, a stronghold of Gloranthan gaming no matter how you
look at it, I feel my fears are somewhat justified.
and walked into a store and saw the following 2 products on sale, which would
you buy first?
2. Reprint of RQ2 Pavis box set bundled with a new RQ scenario book for Pavis
maybe you'll choose #1. More people will choose #2, IMO.
> Brian Tickler mentioned
>
> > fan-published materials fading fast
>
> Hmm, at Glorantha-Con VII this May you could get Enclosure 2 (88 pp.), the
> latest issues of Tales of the Reaching Moon (66 pp.) and RQ Adventures, and
> the RQ-Con IV Conpendium (sic; 83 pp.). At the con I saw Tradetalk 3; my
> copy arrived a couple days ago.
>
> Obviously you must be referring to the quality, not quantity of
> fan-published materials. As editor of Enclosure, I'd be interested in
> hearing your specific complaints, so we can make the next issue better.
> I haven't updated mine lately, but will remedy this soon.
>
> David Dunham <mailto:dunham@pensee.com>
Sorry, as I mentioned above, I didn't mean to imply that all fan-based
materials were going away...I was talking about the digest, and yes, I've
seen all the material appearing since my original post...glad I could be
of assistance :)...
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:27:19 +0100
> From: "Nick Brooke" <Nick_Brooke@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: Death of Gloranthan Gaming
>
> Brian Tickler's analysis is, of course, correct. If only we could all
> contribute as much as he does to keeping Gloranthan gaming alive, there'd
> surely be no problems whatsoever.
Well, Nick, I'm glad you know all about my contributions to the
Ironically enough, I went out and got a commercial-class web site, started
Gloranthan community...as I recall, our last discussion ended with you
telling me how Chaosium supported any efforts to publish fan-based
materials and that I was foolish for thinking otherwise. That was,
oh, at least a year ago I'd guess.
overhauling a couple of 100+ page scenarios, and submitted my ideas for the
site to Chaosium and Avalon Hill for approval. Avalon Hill gave theirs within
2 weeks...I'm still waiting for Rob Heinsoo to respond with anything other than
"I'll get back to you later, wait for Issaries Inc."...oh, wait a minute,
that's right, my most recent follow-up turned up the fact that he lost my
original request.
Luckily, I've since moved on to webmaster and co-manage a Quake 2 clan...and
I must say it's nice to now be contributing to a community that doesn't
make you jump through hoops, berating you while you try to do it with no
info whatsoever. Sure, I'd already wasted a few hundred hours on the
RQ/Glorantha website effort, but at least I didn't waste the 1000 or so
hours I diverted to Quake 2. Strange though, I still feel a little
bitter about not being able to contribute those hours to this community,
but hey, I'll get over it...people like you make it so much easier...
Martin Laurie:
> I like a good fight, and hey, sometimes, on really rare occasions, I'm
> wrong and deserve derision. Besides, don't see you writing in much
> Brian...
There's plenty of reasons for that, recently pointed out quite well by
newbies and oldtimers alike.
> From: Julian Lord <julian.lord@hol.fr>
> > - - LARPS proliferating, RPG campaigns dying off
>
> last I heard, the CCG assault on the RPG market was relenting, and people were
> returning to RPGs. The opposite of what you say, in fact. LARPs are, I think, a
> marginal phenomenon.
I'll agree on the last point...but just because CCGs are dwindling
doesn't mean RPGs are now ascendant...both markets are in freefall, IMO.
> > and although
> > remaining Glorantha-only fans may be fanatical, in the gaming business
> > quality of customers means nothing beyond a certain point; it's quantity of
> > customers that counts.
>
> Quantity is Robin's, Greg's, Issaries' and the Fates' job.
Let's just say that past history here does not lend itself towards
confidence...
> Anyway, the international sales figures for RQ were, in fact, high enough for it
> to be viable. It continues to sell, even now.
- -..and if Chaosium jumped on the opportunity to buy RQ's rights back from
I'll admit that Hero Wars will sell, but it will be as a heroquesting
Hasbro, they could actually continue to sell.
supplement to RQ...new consumers seem, well, unlikely...
Martin Laurie brought up other rules-lite games and their success...these
Glorantha is a great world, however, it is not good enough to stand on
games succeed because they have easy rules and easy "worlds"
together...everyone already knows the basics of vampires, etc.
Glorantha is not easy. It had a good "complexity match" in RQ.
its own as HW will force it to do. Find me a copy of a Glorantha-based
work of fiction in any bookstore that's not in the gaming section and I could
be persuaded to change my mind... :)
> Especially with people like us to support it ;-)
I'll continue to support it, but that doesn't mean I have to like
marching off the cliff...
- --
Brian T. Tickler
tickler@netcom.com or tickler@ix.netcom.com
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