Re: Increased by experience and written language

From: IUL-Labor (
Date: Wed 12 Aug 1998 - 11:56:23 EEST

Joerg from work, again.
Oliver Bernuetz asked:

> 1) Can sorcerers using Sandy's sorcery rules increase their arts and
> skills by experience.

Brithini are said to do so. Malkioni use the interaction of Saints, or
take vows, cutting the tedium to train a skill to 100%+ within a

With the recent information about the nature of mysticism, I have come
to ask myself whether Sandy's vows (abstain from <activity> to gain
magical oomph) isn't the mystic's way rather than the materialist's.
I.e. practice in the Lunar Empire?


> 2) I was wondering whether the main written language used in
> Heortland was. Is it still Heortlander or do they use the language
> of their Western overlords instead.

What Western overlords? Do you mean the relatively short Rokari
interlude of the Kingdom of Malkonwal under Richard the Tigerhearted and
Bishop Vancelain du Tumerine of Nochet? Or do you mean the Aeolian
nobility, which is as a rule of thumb native Hendriki families (except
perhaps in the south, where proximity of God Forgot and passage to Prax
may have brought some Ralian families in, or even have converted God
Forgot natives conquered around 1350-80)?

> OR do they use both for different purposes like English and
> French were used in Medieval England?

The Heortlander written tradition is quite old, and (ironically) was
reinforced by the God Learner incursions to Kethaela in the 2nd Age when
they stressed the librarian branch of LM. Issaries might be using
Tradetalk for keeping accounts, Esrolia surely uses some
Earth-influenced Theyalan language for their Asrelian bank houses which
probably are influential elsewhere in urban Kethaela.

The Aeolians in my vision of Heortland speak Heortlander with Western
affectations - much like "modern" German keeps taking in English terms
and even phrases and grammar (or lack thereof). I supposed that their
scribes write their records in freeform grammar and freeform spelling

Official language usually is that of the rulers. This means that
Seshnegi became the demanded language for official documents under
Richard, and New Pelorian under Lunar occupation. LM and Issaries
interpreters profited from these trends.

When Brian of the Volsaxi conquers the crown of Heortland, I guess the
official language (if Brian ever had enough rest to decree such a thing)
would be a more antiquated Heortlander, similar to the Sartarite
dialects (and choice of vocabulary - I imagine German strewn with French
or Italian loan words rather than English, to catch the lingo of the
18th and 19th century).

My two clacks...

Nick chimed in his:

>> OR do they use both for different purposes like
>> English and French were used in Medieval England?

> The latter is the more fun, and I embrace it.

> Remember that there have been "Western" influences in Heortland
> since the end of the First Age. It's not just King Richard's
> johnny-come-lately Rokari crusaders (although those *are* rather
> like a brutish Norman Conquest on their own) -- perhaps a fair
> comparison is:

> Second Age Heortland - like Anglo-Saxon England becoming
> converted to Christianity (Aeolian Malkionism):
> Venerable Bede Country.

Like Britain, in a number of waves. Here's a short hstory of Western
influences in Heortland:

Heortland's earliest exposure to Western dialects lie in God Forgot and
the Isles, when the Waertagi come and even drop off some of their
Ingareen allies (whose language may become adopted by native Theyalans -
the "dupes" of the "Brithini" system of God Forgot).

Then comes Arkat with his closest allies from the Ralian campaigns,
including a number of left-over knights and wizards from Seshnela who
made the same identification of the Crusade's enemy as Arkat had, and
even (at least) one Horali companion from Brithos, and throws out
Palangio's regime. Arkat's human companions live with the natives while
Arkat undergoes his troll rebirth, and comradeship in arms after a
successful liberation plus some confusion on the Orlanthi side about the
nature of their religion (this is the same time Harmast preaches his way
of worship to the broad masses) may have attracted first tentative

Some of Arkat's new comrades-in-arms remain even through his Dorastor
campaign (or join him afterwards, coming in from the north in the wake
of Harmast and Talor) and enter Ralios, experience the Stygian
Malkionism of Arkat's Dark Empire, and return to Heortland. (This is how
David Hall wrote the vita of "St." Aeol.)

Contrary to earlier claims, I have de-westernized my ideas about
Heortland quite a bit. After a while, Aeol's sect becomes an obscure but
persistent subcult of Orlanth among the (urban or close-to-urban)
Hendriki, Orlanth Aeolus or Orlanth the Wizard.

Enter the Jrusteli and Slontoli merchants in the sixth and seventh
century. Apparently the Jrusteli still needed to explore most of
Kethaela around 700 S.T. when Hrestol Arganitis continues his travels
through Kethaela into Dragon Pass. Seems like they entered Nochet after
passages on Waertagi ships and just built up a presence there, enough to
chance upon the cult of Drolgard around 670 and perform a spirit raid.

In 720 the battle of Tanian's Victory increased Jrusteli presence
everywhere by several orders of magnitude. Three (known) Jrusteli cities
were built in Kethaela, of which Lylket (on the base of the Shadow
Plateau) was closest, and possibly most influential, to Heortland.

The Zistorite movement seems to have started in the late eighth century
(Peter, when was the conquest of Dark Esrolia?) and impacted Heortland
later when the Machine God armies conquered at least part of the land.
This influence, and God Learner presence, terminated in 916 with the
fall of Locsil, the Clanking City.

The Closing prevented a strong recurrance of Jrusteli merchants
encroaching the land again after things had had time to cool down a bit.
Instead, Ralian trader princes from Jorstland established a trade route
through Wenelia and Nochet in the early 12th century, and came at least
to Knight Fort. Their introduction of Ralian chivalry armour to the
horse-riding nobility made Western ideas popular once more, and slowly
increased Aeolian influence.

IMO the full expansion of Aeolianism in Heortland happened in the great
civil wars around and after Belintar's ascension (which also prompted
the resettlement of Dragon Pass). While it was supported by the Ralians,
most of it was carried by native "converts" as a party in the civil war.
Considering the strange aberrations in custom and habits of the English
civil war in Chromwell's time (Tories and Roundheads), at least a strong
western (Safelstran?) affectation in language may be expected.

The first Heortland civil war (1315 or earlier to around 1325 or 1350)
was fought by progressive Aeolians against traditionalists. The
progressive party eventually won when it switched to supporting
Belintar, who didn't help much in cleaning up shop, though.

After 1350, a unified kingdom of Heortland (re-) conquered the God
Forgot-held south of the land, including Refuge. While this brought in a
lot of western(ish) speaking people, I'm not so sure how it affected the
preferred language of the literate class.

As far as Ralian-descended landholders there may have been concerned, a
feudal Hendriki kingdom would have been preferable to Talar rule, so
they may have been allies within the conquered territory. I doubt they
were a significant influence in the large picture, though.

Seshnegi influence on Heortland came through Safelster (which had been
conquered twice by the Tanisoran kingdom of Rokari Seshnela, first under
Bailifes the Hammer, later under Ulianus III). I suppose it was under
Bailifes' regime that the Nochet bishopric turned Rokari (but then I
just learned about the Irish archbishop who converted to Anglican
protestantism without ever being deposed by the Pope, effectively
filling the top office of both confessions for the remainder of his -
very long - lifetime).

The Opening brought direct access for the Seshnegi in addition to the
Safelstran-controlled overland trade routes through Maniria.

>Third Age Heortland - like late AS England being invaded by
>Normans (Rokari Crusaders):
>Hereward and Ivanhoe Country.

Ivanhoe Country goes especially well for the three years of the Kingdom
of Malkonwal, or for southern Heortland where IMG Ralian Trader Prince
families had settled the disputed region between Heortland and God
Forgot. (Mt. Passant has seen both God Forgot and Hendriki overlordship
several times in its history IMG.)

The period before Richard might be similar to Aethelred's (the
"Unready") reign of England: friendly relations to the recent imports of
Seshnegi merchant nobles and their knights since the Opening, and
growing influence of Seshnegi individuals at the court even before
Richard's arrival.

You missed out a parallel for Alfred the Great's introduction of written
Anglo-Saxon as a scientific language (e.g. Orosius). Best guess would be
the "reorganisation phase" in Lhankor Mhy libraries after the fall of
Clanking City...


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