From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@toppoint.de)
Date: Tue 05 Jan 1999 - 20:32:00 EET
Keith Nellist
> Why would the shaman or the ancestors want
> some non-family member worshipping them?
Does the ritual "gift spell" mean anything to you? An ancestor
worshipper who brings in interesting magics - and is willing to give
them up for the sake of his new family - should be welcome.
The ancestors work as a sort of communal magical memory. A family member
who manages to steal, buy, or otherwise aquire a certain magic and who
gives it to an ancestor sufficiently remote so that both his officiating
shaman and the (majority of his) other family members can access this
ancestor.
I'm not even sure that an "ancestor" has to have a direct line to a
worshipper. It could as well be possible to access great-granduncle Toby
who had the troll killing magic which cost him his offspring, without
the need to go back until Toby's parents or further, who may have been
gifted with that magic.
> Why would anyone worship someone who
> wasn't their ancestor?
Imagine the indirect ancestor was Sartar the Founder, and the
prospective worshipper was looking forward to become Prince of Sartar?
If there is an adoption, who is it to, anyway? We know that Arkat was
adopted into the Icy Eye clan of Dagori Inkarth, the clan of Garazaf
Hyloric. Does this mean that he relates to his womb-mother like a son in
genealogical matters?
Argrath Venharlsson's "adoption" into the Colymar tribe was through a
long list of ancestors until a common ancestor present in other Colymar
clans (Arnoring) was found. While this is not ancestor worship, it is an
example for a proof that one's ancestor was one of the ancestors of the
target group.
Such a proof usually is backed by great likelihood. One in three Germans
will have Charlemagne among his ancestors - compared to Glorantha, name
any hero of the Gbaji wars for such a likelihood. Now, how many nameless
shared ancestors will have accumulated in the same time?
Of course, likelihood decreases when you cross cultural (or religious)
borders, unless some of your ancestors did so.
In the case of Praxians, there is a fair likelihood for some Theyalan
ancestry through abductions. And vice versa - IMO Argrath White Bull is
descended from a lineage of Praxian Khans, i.e. from Waha. (I could
elaborate, in case anyone wants to pick nits...)
> Perhaps if ancestral spirits can be traced back to
> Grandfather Mortal then a shared cult is possible.
If ancestor worship insists on direct descendance, this might be
necessary, although a more recent kinship is not only more likely but
also more useful. Otherwise you would have to gift Grandpa Mortal
himself with your magics, and all your human (and possibly even
non-human) rivals could access it as well...
> Bear in mind that (assuming you trace both male and female
> ancestors) after 10 generations you should have
> 2048 ancestors (ignoring the effects of inbreeding).
In caseof an Orlanthi, of these 2048 about 1800 could be out of the
descendant's tribe, and the rest could be made up from "more
interesting" characters bringing in "exotic" heritage.
> It seems the general opinion is in favour of adoption. I feel
> it should be a nasty thing to do to your ancestors; you are
> effectively betraying them.
Depends whether you make a full switch, or whether you prove there are
shared ancestors in your own and your target kin-group's lineages.
I guess that a fair number of these proofs are fabricated and do mean a
> It makes me think of Humakt cutting his family ties, and Daka Fal is
I guess this has something to do with Humakt being the cause for
betrayal of a branch of ancestors. But how remote?
> not keen on Humakt.
Grandfather Mortal's transformation into Daka Fal. But don't the Daka
Fali recognize Death as a necessety?
------------------------------
End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #377
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