From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@voyager.co.nz)
Date: Fri 02 Apr 1999 - 06:50:28 EEST
Keith Nellist:
>I have been re reading the 'ShangHsa' myth of the month and wondered if
First and foremost, it should be understood as a Kralori _view_
of events of the Imperial Age when their ancient empire was
forcibily integrated into the global economy for nigh on 350
years. One might be forgiven a little bit for blaming it on a
vast conspiracy spun by ShangHsa.
>Firstly, it seems to me that Hemkarba 'where demons ruled' must be
>Dragon Pass circa 575 (ruled by trolls, heavy taxes, widespread
>dissent over Arkat's Command etc make it the place with the most
>suffering).
Correct.
>So Mao Tzen is reborn
>there and teaches Draconic thought - perhaps he is Vistikos ? Is there
>any Dragon Pass person called Great Rebel Jem or anything similar?
MaoTzen is not Vistikos. There probably is an EWF hero called
Jerem at the founding for Vistikos was said to have converted
"key political figures" at the premiere of the Waltzing and
Hunting Bands. Therefore it is plausible to assume that Jerem
in the audience, perhaps as King of the Heortlings.
>Next, he is reborn as a Seshnegi nobleman ('son of an exarch'), Gillam
>De'stau, in Seshnela (Hesezmedi) where th people are 'slaves of Chelen
>the Doubter' (ie Malkioni?).
D'Estau, which makes him an ancestor of the current Duke of Nolos.
Curriously Estau does not lie within Quinpolic domains. Chelen
the Doubter is an Antigod of Vithela. He raises doubts in the minds
of humans, distracting them from matters of importance. He makes
a showing in the myth of the Sages Contest. By calling the Malkioni
slaves of Chelen, the Kralori are indulging in scurrilous abuse.
>Now, Gillam established the School of Immanent
>Mastery and was one of the adventurers of the Middle Sea Alliance who
>worked for Orvansfal, King of Seshnela. In the King's opinion he was a
>'slightly crazed man' which fits with him really being a reincarnated
>eastern mystic.
Then again it need not have.
>Now I
>could speculate that 'ShangHsa' could be a Kralorlan version of 'Svalak'
>and that Svalak was really the illegitimate son of the slightly crazed
>adventurer hanging aroung Orvansfal's court rather than the true heir to
>the Kingdom of Seshnela.
Svalak however rules between 768 and 789 ST. ShangHsa is known
to live much longer until his eventual overthrow at Godunya's
hands and well after the Seshnegi Empire is dead as a dodo.
>He did, after all, have a Kralorelan Palce built in Valtorwal (to
>make him feel at home?) and established Eest to rule Melib, Teshnos
>and other Eastern ports.
And Svalak's son, Svagad goes one better by nicking a whole
Kralori _city_ and establising it in Jrustela. This
proves nothing and could easily be put down to their Elginistic
tendencies.
>Crunch year appears to be 768, where Orvansfal ('on his deathbed') finds
>out that he had a large share in the conquest of Kralorela, and when
>Saintly Yanoor commits utuma ritual suicide. Sandy Peterson speculated
>that ShangHsa became saintly Yanoor which might really be ShangHsa
>realising the error of his ways.
Sandy's theory requires that ShangHsa ruled before the Sunstop and
was liberated to become Yanoor whereas You posit that Saintly Yanoor
_becomes_ evil ShangHsa. In any event, Yanoor ruled from the Dawn
to 768 ST. ShangHsa was appointed Emperor a few years after that
and was overthrown in the War in Heaven.
>This ties in with Mao/Shang/Yanoor then 'accepting the duty of the
>entanglements which his actions brought about, and resulting in
>his full integration into the world'.
But ShangHsa specifically did not do this. He strayed and thus
became an antigod - a very bad thing.
>SO this Mao Tzen is really the founder of the EWF, the creator of the
>Empire of Sea and Land out of the Middle Sea Alliance, and a Dragon
>Emporer of Kralorela -nice one Mao.
Nope. The Kralori _believe_ him to be the founder of those empires,
something completely different. I do not believe that he ever was
founder of the EWF or Great Rebel Gem. Godunya was in Dragon Pass,
saw the EWF was practicing errors similar to ShangHsa and made the
conclusion that the founder of the EWF was ShangHsa in disguise.
Nor was he the creator of the Middle Sea Empire as he did not invent
the God Learner movement.
>At this point I'd like to speculate that he arrived in Dragon Pass
>about 820. This makes him on schedule to study with Lord Pavis
>(809-830), give Delecti a few tips on being a Magus (819) and to
>found the Here and Now faction. In 826 the Here and Nows (whose
>doctrine leads the leaders to want to be worshipped as gods -like
>Godunya is later) take over from the Forward Faction (who get
>devoured by a True Dragon).
It's interesting to note that Ingolf Dragonfriend disses the Here
and Nows in his saga in KoS and holds them partly responsible for
the decline and destruction of the EWF.
>Godunya has gone off to meditate in a 'distant and lonely place' (which
>I take to be Prax?) He remains there until the Exarchs find him 'sitting
>amid the ruins of dead Giants'. These ruins, I asume, are either on the
>Plateau of Statues, or more appealing the City of Pavis.
The Plateau of Statues is correct. Pavisites would have remembered
if a vast Kralori army invaded Pavis. A Kralori army is stated
to have invaded the Wastelands and slaughtered many Praxian Khans
early in the Modern Age at the battle of Lost Hope.
>One could almost imagine that
>Lord Pavis himself was simply a disguise for Godunya who meditated in the
>Pavis Temple (which was impregnable until after he left in 1051).
Godunya left in 1124 (still well before Toras Joran's raid). However
Pavis was a half-elf who did not display draconic powers, vastly
different from Godunya.
>What I now wonder about is the Jaldon connection - Jaldon who spent
>several years in Eastern Genertela and returned to sack Pavis. Was
>Jaldon really motivated by False Dragon Ring politics - trying to
>get to the Emperor in hiding? Did previous incarnations mean he had
>a good knowledge of Dragon Pass to help in his raiding? Will we ever
>know? Perhaps ShangHsa is reborn as Jaldon?
Jaldon was far older than the Imperial Age. KoS calls him "a hero
from bygone ages" at the time of the sacking of Pavis and who was
awakened by the Sable Folk. So it seems that his adventures in
Kralorela and the cursing by the Dragon Pass people could have taken
place in the Dawn Age (prompting an invasion by the world council
in 35 ST).
- --Peter Metcalfe
- --Peter Metcalfe
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