From: Bob Stancliff (email@example.com)
Date: Thu 02 Sep 1999 - 05:02:53 EEST
> Has anybody ever _denied_ this? What people have criticized was
> your statement that the Grazers were in Pavis before the Dragonkill
> and survived it.
I think that you meant to say "in Dragon Pass before the Dragonkill and
So, if the Grazers (according to their own legends) descended from the
centaurs from Beast Valley or the EWF pens, then those creatures did
survive the Dragonkill in Dragon Pass and became humans later. Not that I
currently accept those myths.
Still, many races survived in Dragon Pass during the Dragonkill because
the Dragons concentrated on defending the Dragonnewt cities and ate the
attacking armies. Nowhere is it stated that the Pass was stripped of
life. I believe that large parts of Beast Valley and the Grazelands were
far enough away for someone to survive.
> What makes you think you are the only person here to have read
> KoS? I was simply correcting your undue reliance on that book
> and pointing out what is written _elsewhere_.
If you had simply pointed out, or reminded me, that KoS is not written to
be accurate (as I later stated), and that the Pavis book is a more
accurate source, then you might not have been so incredibly insulting.
> These legends are better treated as myths. The Grazers came to Dragon
> Pass in 1250, well after the Dragonkill, and well before the Orlanthi.
Now I do have the Pavis book here...
When the Pure Horse People fled the destruction of Robcradle, where did
they go? Since they are not mentioned in the raids of Waha, they must
have fled into or through Dragon Pass and settled for the next 30 years in
Far Point, the Grazelands, or Tarsh. They were close enough for Pavis to
find, when he brought the statue into Dragon Pass.
When Joraz Kyrem allied with Pavis to reenter Prax, we only assume that
all of the clans followed him. A reasonable assumption, but not certain.
In 860 the Arrowsmith Dynasty gained rule, and in 875 Joraz Kyrem is
referred to as king, so his family is the Arrowsmith's?
In this period Joraz bred his horses with the zebras to form the zebra
tribe. Did he give up control of the Pure Horse people, did some follow
him into the zebra tribe, or just his family/clan?
Pg 10 states that there was an influx of horse clans until somewhere
between 900 and 940. Is this some new Pentan clans or more clans from
Dragon Pass that had stayed behind earlier?
In 927, Jaldon destroyed the Zebra cavalry, seiged the city until 940,
defeated three relief armies, sacked the city, and destroyed the
Arrowsmith dynasty. What were all of the horse clans during while this
went on? Hiding along the coast or aiding the nomads?
I see that the Pavis book clearly states that the Pure Horse remnants
retreated into Dragon Pass and were given the Grazelands by Ironhoof's
people. Why couldn't Greg say this in KoS? Couldn't any true legends
survive until the hero wars?
While I can admire KoS as a 270 page thought problem and puzzle, it
really ticks me off not to have reliable game material.
I really like that the author of the 'Arm of Pavis' story in "Strangers
in Prax" built on the reference to sorcery platforms mentioned in one
small paragraph in this book. It is a fair translation of the concept
into RQ3 rules.
Short of fanning all of this into a flame war, I am willing to drop it
and go to something else. I think I recall that this discussion started
with a request for a chronology, and someone else claiming that the
Grazers descended from Hyalorings.
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