Lunars and Elf hatred

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Fri 03 Sep 1999 - 01:58:55 EEST

Paul Anderson:

>>[The Lunar Empire] only burned down one [elvenwood]. The other was done
>>by the CharUn who are allies of the Empire at best, and were on the verge
>>of invading Glamour not so long beforehand.

>"After 50 years of loyal service, the Char-un received Erigia [ibid, p43]"
>Two generations is 'not so long'?

        The reason for the deterioration in Lunar and Char-Un friendship
        is not known at this time. It may have been longstanding, as
        hinted by their non-appearance among the troop lists at the first
        victory against the Blood Kings mentioned above. A famous Lunar
        Vase shows a mounted warrior assualting Glamour but we do not
        know if this was Char-Un.
                        Lunar Wane Chronicles: First Wane.

To put some dates into this, the CharUn converted in 1228. The first
victory against the Blood Kings took place after 1250. The assault
on Glamour is Jannisor's famous attack and that took place in 1275.
The CharUn are given Erigia in 1279. They don't look so loyal now,
do they?

>GB continues "The tribe was displeased,
>for it was elf forest. But in 1/32 the Skyburn spell poured liquid fire on
>the forests, and destroyed all the trees." The simplest reading of this
>passage is that the Lunars performed another of their astronomical wonders,
>like the Crater-Makers or the Twin-Stars, to help their allies.

Unfortunately we are told in the same source that I quoted that
the Skyburn started after "Panishi stirred his own magics and
created a fearsome weapon". Admittedly it does then state that
"The ritual was [...] maintained by refugee priests from the
cities of Yuthuppa who had taken refuge with the Char-Un Kahn."
(I think they are captive slaves myself).

Then we are told that the Emperor ordered a Moonburn, modelled
on the earlier CharUn event. The different magics used meant
that the Moonburn took five years to complete, instead of
two for the Skyburn.

>It may be the Skyburn was entirely a Char-un magic. If so, the Lunars still
>planted them there {as opposed to, say, Twice-Blessed} and the result of
>this Lunar arrangement was a destroyed elvenwood, and allies reduced in
>population and rendered dependent on mercenary service.

But did the Lunars actually intend for the CharUn to raze Erigia?
I believe that they actually wanted the CharUn to exterminate
_themselves_ in attempting to conquer Erigia and that they were
quite astounded at the CharUn spell.

>>Dagori Inkarth warred against the Lunar Empire.

>This is a straw man. No political organization since Time has included
>all dwarves or all trolls, much less all of both. The Empire does,
>unlike many states, include both dwarves and trolls. AFAIK it includes no
>organized body of Aldryami (the Stinking Forest may be, but is not yet,
>the first).

The Gardens of Carresh in Oronin Satrapy:

        The Third Age found a subtle Aldryami comeback. The first
        hundred years saw more and more of their vast forests razed,
        but at the same time there appeared exquisite gardens growing
        on old sacred territory. This time, though, the Aldryami
        were under the protection of the local humans. Examples of
        this phenomenon are the Gardens of Carresh, in the Lunar
                        Cults of Prax p96.

The Old Centers of Rist:

        The Elves [of Rist], caught without allies and in open
        ground by the Lunar Army, were killed or forced to
        leave their native land. They did kept their Old Centres
        which survived, but most of their race abandoned their
        roots and moved into haunted Dorastor.
                        Lunar Wane Chronicles: First Wane.

And there's the Moon Elves growing on the surface of the Moon.

The Lunars also had the Moonbow regiment raised from Rist, but
every man and elf of that regiment died in flames within five
years of Rist's razing.

>>Given that it does not "contain" two elder races, there is no
>>reason why it should hate elves.

>"The Blue Moon Trolls have aided the Goddess since her lifetime and are
>widely held] to be a branch of the Emperor's secret police." [loc.cit.]

I assure you that the Lunars have no secret police and even if
they did, they would be staffed by humans.

>At the least, they have some authority and influence in Glamour.

Not to the extent of directing the empire into vast and complicated
magic projects against age-old race enemies. Such is completely
anthetical to the Lunar Way.

>" home to the largest group of dwarfs _in_ the Empire.[p.39]"

They live within the Empire but they are not imperial subjects
AFAIK and they take their orders from the Decamony of Nida.
Elder Secrets makes no mention of their subservience to the

>Presumably followed by Imther.

The Brass Mountains.

>And then there is the Dwarf Run prophecy, which claims the Red Moon is a
>dwarvish tool [ibid. p.56].

Elder Secrets also reports that the Silver Dwarves claim to have made
the Red Moon. But what would they know? They can't even explain the
purpose of the Red Moon.

- --Peter Metcalfe


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 18:53:00 EEST