From: Alex Ferguson (abf@cs.ucc.ie)
Date: Fri 03 Dec 1999 - 03:08:04 EET
John Hughes:
> It doesn't seem far-fetched to that there are several different versions of
> the Vinga myth, and several different manifestations of the 'cult'. At the
> bright centre of the universe (Sartar and the Far Place, natch) some tribes
> recognise Vinga as a mortal hero from the time of Vinglot, some as divine, a
> daughter of Orlanth AllFather and Ernalda, or Orlanth and 'another goddess'.
Those are hardly radically divergent interpretations, though. Being
a mortal hero from the time of Vingkot, and being a divine offspring of
Orlanth are hardly incompatible, as Vingkot, indeed, exemplifies.
> For my two clacks and a greased enlo, this indicates that the 'cult' of
> Vinga is only rarely a formal cult at all
As I've mooted before: what exactly _is_ a 'formal cult', these days?
Organisationally, only rarely would Vingan worship be separate from
Orlanth Adventurous/the Warrior worship, which itself almost always
isn't some separate, mystery-cult like thing, but integrated into the
wider worship of some larger social construct (usually a clan). (OK,
excepting some of the strange things the weaponthanes go off to do by
themselves occassionally...)
> Vinga is important to me because she is a popular goddess that grew out of
> nowhere, a goddess shaped and moulded by the gaming and mythic needs of
> Gloranthan *players* rather than by Greg's vision, a popular goddess who
> serves [perhaps subconsciously] as a corrective to perceived imbalances in
> the Orlanthi gaming universe.
I find this a strange, bordering indeed on the bizarre, statement.
Didn't this whole thread start off with claims that Vinga was, on the
contrary, an 'unusably bad naff retcon' on the part of one F. G.
Stafford? Granted Vinga seems to be a remarkably popular topic for
fan myth-making, the reasons for which I might speculate upon were
it not for the dangers of sounding like a pop psychologist. But in
terms of Gloranthan invention, Vinga seems to have arisen as a result
of Greg's tinkering with the Orlanth cult. Advanced Gregologists
please correct this impression if it's mistaken.
And I'd like to know also: what are said perceived imbalances? Vinga
is yer basic woman warrior cult, and amidst his assorted flip-flops on
this and similar topics, I'm not aware of Greg having ever expounded
the view that women warriors were unknown, or even terribly eyebrow-
raising in Orlanthi society. Look at the (_excellent_) section in the
Genertela Player's Book, which predates (published) Vinga, for example.
bjm10 replying to Phil(? I think):
> > Since Greg said at a lore auction (in Australia as I recall) that
> > Vinga is the daughter of Orlanth and Ernalda, my myth says so too.
>
> Everything Greg says is wrong. He has said so, himself. He has not
> bothered to specify whether this is an Orlanthi Everything, a Lunar
> Everything, an Arkati Everything, or some other Everything. Nor should
> he. There comes a point wherein fans wanting things "pinned down"
> actually detracts from the setting.
There comes a point where promulgating contrarian positions apparently
I'm all for mythic diversity, but Sartar and Garhound are hardly other
just for the sake of it detracts, if not from the setting itself,
then at least from discussion of same. Will all those who believe
that Vinga is Orlanth's sister, and are not called Maloney, please
raise their right hands?
ends of the lozenge as far as actual 'mythic drift' is concerned.
That is, if that's the sort of diversity you're suggesting -- your
pronouncements on this topic have been just as 'ex cathedra' as the
Establishment's (if not more so) as far as I can see. (Difference
being the size of the congregation?) If you mean diversity of the
And it harm no-one else's Glorantha, do what thou wilt, then by all
means. I'd think that'd go without saying, but then again, it's
probably worth saying every so often just to keep in practice.
Cheers,
Alex.
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