From: Alex Ferguson (abf@yeats.ucc.ie)
Date: Wed 26 Jan 2000 - 22:41:00 EET
Nick has a bit of an old gripe, at my instigation:
> Sticking to a literal interpretation of Odal property ("Everyone owns
> everything; nobody owns anything")
That's not the best literal interpretation, as quite explictly not all
property is odal, and what is odal is owned by the clan, i.e.,
theoretically gets disposed of my the chief (perhaps in practice one
should say more boradly, by the Ring), which is a touch more specific
than 'everyone'.
> would IMO be like running a Malkioni game with a 32-hour clock
Hrm, I had best not mentioned that I run my Orlanthi game with
the _Orlanthi_ clock (well, 'clock'), then...
> It's one too many hoops for my ageing brain to jump through, for no
> perceived game benefit other than deliberate obscurity.
With due deference to your alleged synaptic ossification, Young Brooke,
I shall claim that as a gaming device it's neither particularly
hard to deal with, nor is entirely sans point, or yet, hook. First
of all, there's an easy out in that in any given circumstance you
can elide the effective distinction between 'private property' in
the modern sense and odal property simply by having the clan (as
manifest by the chief, the ring, the lawspeaker, our cousins, and
next door's dog (or alynx, for the pure of pet)) asserting a
'traditional or customary right' to said property which is as good
in practice.
But what, I hear you say, is the actual point? Well, for one
thing it explains (part of) the legal problem with kinstrife,
as has been pointed out: "We owe ourselves a billion dollars",
to steal from Dilbert. On a more mundane note, it's also a handy
GM device in that one can use chiefly (ringly) decisions on
the 'assignment' of odal property to start plots, not to say intra-clan
disputes, pretty much 'out of thin air'.
Conversely, it's a handy means of empowering (and/or dumping unwanted
responsibily onto) people when they're given clan authority to dispose
of or deal with odal property: one such hook I've used is the generic
clan-trading expedition, which is nonetheless full of political
possibilities, because while one is ostensibly dealing with 'collective'
property, and has full authority to do what one likes with it, one can
still get people with a vested interest in it ('their' summer lambs, or
the deer hides _they_ hunted for and tanned), and are expecting some
sort of benefit from it. As well as the traditional bollocking from the
clan ring for doing the wrong thing, as is pretty much a given...
> Given that we all know of them from RQ2 and RQ3 sources, there are obviously
> *some* "Yelmalio (rather than Elmal) Clans".
Of course; the Far Point mob seem to be particularly Yelmalio-ist.
What I was saying was, pretty much necessarily _only_ Yelmalians
have migrated out of Sartar, though admittedly it's possible that
some Elmali may have converted and then left immediately, or at least
in indecent haste, doubtless to avoid all-out war with their
neighbours. If you're still Elmali, then pretty much perforce you're
stuck in Sartar. (Aside from individual exiles in Pavis or Whitewall
and the like.)
> But I would agree that
> (Orlanthi) "most" clans in general and (Orlanthi) "all" southern Sartarite
> clans probably worship Elmal rather than Yelmalio.
I wasn't even necessarily claiming that. Our Barlamanni neighbours
don't seem to have 'sun-swirled' yet, though -- and just as well for
them, too! (Granted we occassionally beat them up anyway, but only
for strictly ritual purposes, you understand...)
> There should, however, be
> some remaining "Yelmalio" clans, whose ancient Yelmalio-worshipping
> traditions are linked to the Sun Dome Temples and the Dara Happan Empire.
There should, though I suspect (a la Gorlick and various other
commentators, dunno if this rises to GAG yet...) that this ancient
tradition wasn't extant _in Sartar_ as of 70-100 years ago. (i.e.
its (re-)discovery was effectively a (re-)importation from elseTemple.)
Cheers,
Alex.
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