Argrath son of Argrath....

From: Roger McCarthy (
Date: Thu 23 Mar 2000 - 22:10:26 EET

As both how many Argraths? and the Garhound contest have come up I thought
Id drop in an idea developed in a discussion with Jane Williams a while
back but which I never got around to posting.

The Argrath problem as posed by KoS is basically that the sources give us
several (three or four? I dont have KoS to hand) genealogies for A and at
several points seem to distinguish between Argrath of Pavis and Argrath
White Bull as if they were different people.

Furthermore one source has Argrath marrying the Feathered Horse Queen twice,
while the sources that describe the fall/liberation of Pavis seem to put
Argrath in two incompatible roles:

a) Garrath Sharpsword who saves the Cradle, sails around the Lozenge with
Harrek and returns as Argrath White Bull to lead a Praxian horde over the
walls of Pavis in 1624 or 1625, and

b) Enostar or Argrath of Pavis who seems to be a native Pavic lowlife rather
than a heroic Sartarite exile, who definitely doesnt leave with the cradle,
hangs out for a while with the Lunars and by 1624/5 has joined and become a
leader of the Orlanthi underground who rise up when the nomads attack.

My solution to the problem is supplied by MoB's throwaway line in the
Garhound scenario that a previous contest in 1603 had been won by Garrath
Sharpsword (Argraths pseudonym in Pavis).

Now almost by definition the winners of a Gloranthan fertility contest
SHOULD themselves produce offspring (and probably rather special offsping
blessed by Ernalda and her consort-deity at that)and if it did the resulting
child would have been born in 1604 or early 1605.

(BTW how long do pregnancies last in Glorantha - 4 seasons would be about
right assuming that Gloranthan days are about 20% longer than earth days so

the birth would be somewhere between Fire season 1604 and Fire/1605).

So assuming that Garrath has a child (highly probable) and that its a son
(50% chance) what would happen to him while Garrath is living in Pavis and

roaming the wastes?

At this point the identity of Garrath's Harvest Queen becomes important.

As Argrath is said to belong to the House of Sartar through his mother
Brenna (who IIRC is an illegitimate daughter or grand-daughter of Duke
Dorasor) the obvious answer is that the Garhound Harvest Queen in 1603 was
Brenna who I would suggest was a member of the Garhound clan on her mothers
side and was brought up by her mothers kin in Garhound rather than by her
fathers in Pavis.

After Garraths' spell as Constable of Garhound has finished I would see him
leaving for Pavis leaving behind a pregnant Brenna in Garhound - however it
soon becomes clear that all descendants of Sartar are in deadly danger from
Lunar assassins and accordingly when Argrath junior is born he is soon
fostered out to a poor Pavic family and given the name Enostar (IMG this
would be after Brenna is killed by a Lunar terminator-demon)and grows up in
ignorance of his true parentage.

By the time the Cradle appears in 1621 Garrath is a famous Orlanthi hero and
his son is about 16 and still unaware of his true identity (I am not even
sure Garrath knows about him at this point - it would probably be safer if
he didn't).

Accordingly Enostar is left behind by Garrath and instead becomes some sort
of minstrel cum psychotherapist learning the dreams of Lunar soldiers and
becoming known as Bad Dream Enostar as a result. Eventually however he
falls dangerously sick and on recovery becomes a devout Orlanthi and
convinced anti-Lunar conspirator.

By 1624/5 Enostar is a ring leader of the Orlanthi resistance and when his
father returns as Argrath White Bull (AWB) leading the barbarian horde he is
instrumental in persuading the resistance to side with the nomads rather
than the Lunars.

With the city fallen father and son are re-united and Enostar learns his
true identity and becomes known as Argrath of Pavis (AoP).

The trajectories of the two Argrath's after 1625 are up to you - I would
suggest that it is AWB who marries Kallyr and then the FHQ possibly in some
sort of weird proxy arrangement (making AWB KoDP from 1626-) while AoP
becomes Duke of Pavis and Alda-Chur where he becomes heavily involved in
supporting the Fazzurite revolt in Tarsh while AWB and Kallyr spend a lot of
time dealing with problems in Kethaela.

In 1629 Kallyr is killed by Harrek and IMG AWB then tries and fails to bring
Kallyr back via a LBQ and never returns, leaving AoP as the last surviving
heir of Sartar (alternatively AoP and AWB can fall out and AoP kills AWB -
rather like Sohrab and Rustam in reverse, or AWB is killed by Harrek or by
the Lunars) - in any case by 1630 or so we only need one Argrath and I
suggest that the one that's left is AoP.

IMG It is therefore AoP who goes on to marry the FHQ (probably a different
one as I suspect that Grazers are not too big on incest), becomes KoDP and
goes on to conquer Saird and destroy the Lunar empire.

This solution also explains why Argrath falls out with Mularik as it is AWB
who makes Mularik King of Tarsh - probably imposing him over the heads of
Fazzurite rebels like Annstad of Dunstop - and that after AWB's death or
disappearance Mularik rejects the authority of AoP.

This also fits in well with Nick Brooke's theory that the fall of the Red
Moon is really an act of utuma sacrifice as AoP was selected and
pre-programmed by the Red Goddess to carry out this role during his years as
a Lunar fraterniser (after all who sent all those bad dreams?).

Anyway this strikes me as a relatively simple and elegant solution and if
nothing else at least it does obey the principle of Ockham's razor (entities
- - or in this case Argrath's - are not be multiplied beyond necessity)....

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