Re: Void and Void

From: Julian Lord (
Date: Fri 31 Mar 2000 - 23:20:56 EEST

Ciao Gian ; spero che stai bene ; e spero sopra tutto che
i cani ti lasciarano stare tranquillo questa volta ...

> <<The Ultimate Goal of dragonewt
> mysticism is to become One with the Void that is
> Ourobouros, in the Heart of Chaos, in the Outside of
> Existence. To acheive this, Ourobouros (and the
> dragonewts) must Devour the World.>>
> IMG, but I suppose in most Gloranthas, Julian, this is not a condivisible
> concept.

This is a difficult thread that hasn't been done properly either on-list
or in-print : the people to ask are Nils and Alex. Peter knows much
of these matters, and a David (and I hope I'm not forgetting anyone ... ).
I know some of it.

But Nils and Alex have the *facts*.

> The purposes of Chaos and of Dragonewts are opposed, not similar IMO.
> Yes, there are affinities: both devour and both refuse the material balanced
> world in Time, but, a big BUT, for altogether different reasons.

YES. Chaos Void and Mystic Void are two different Voids.

I once argued the opposite point, to try to understand why your statement is
correct ; but also because I once believed that there might be some kind of
transcendental relationship between the different cultural concepts of Void.

This turned out to be incorrect ; BUT, the dragonewts *do* link them IMO ;
BUT they always do everything arse-leftwards anyway, and even their
Mysticism, as Nils' and Peter's *wonderful* posts on 'newt eggs have

> Let's take the Orlanthi explanation of Chaos as a starting point:

Wrong starting point I'm afraid :

    the Orlanthi/GL explanation of the void is simply Non-Mystic,
and incompatible with dragonewtism.

> Yes, some effects (powerful magics, huge destructions, hypermundane
> manifestations) are common to both Chaos and DragonLore, but the goals are
> opposite, I repeat, and not easily comparable.

You've the right instincts, though. :-)

> Anyway, what evidence do we have, I ask, that Draconism was ever defeated or
> tainted by Chaos?

None. It wasn't. But the *dragonewts* (and probably not many other beings)
believe IMO and IMG (YGM and probably *will* V) in a genetic relationship
of Void > Chaos that Peter's Egg Myth explains VERY neatly, and elegantly.

> They are on two different planes of power and magic and
> even of void and eating, I deem.

Not from most mystic POVs.

> Help me with some pointing observations, I could wander in the void myself
> if I keep on speculating about these matters all by myself...

I sympathise : been there myself (all too often ... ) ;-)


Julian Lord


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