From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Mon 03 Apr 2000 - 11:29:04 EEST

Julian Lord:

> > The chaotic void would be the mystic void turned inside out
> > (c.f. Salonar Tamaskil's speculations in Cults of Terror,
> > sidebar p19).

>So you're saying that there *is* a transcendental correspondance
>between the Voids of various Gloranthan cultures ?

No, there is a correspondence but it is a perversion rather
than a transcendent "all voids are one". Moreover the Void
doesn't really exist in all cultures. It's a NiangMaoist
(a minor but influential philosophy in Kralorela) goal and
is not the belief of the more numerous Darudists (who think
it's dragons all the way down) or the Vithelans (who waffle
about Durapdur instead).

The CoT model is flawed in that it has selected one from each
(Void from NiangMao, Silence from Orlanthi, Prime Mover from
Zzabur and Primal Plasma from Nobody-I-know). The God Learners
may have felt that they had identified the oldest belief from
each philosophy but IMO this was another of their short-cuts.

>Yes, but Salonar was a madman ; and even if he wasn't, and his
>Drastic Resolutions are just the plain Truth about Glorantha,

I am talking about the God Learner mentioned in Cults of Terror,
not Stevie's 16th Century Orlanthi Priest.

>As Nils and Alex have pointed out to me
>(although they've asked me not to reveal any of the nitty-gritty
>specifics of actual Eastern Cults and Philosophies),
>there isn't actually any notion of 'Chaos' as such in most
>cultures that are based on Mysticism.

There's obviously some sort of misunderstanding going on for
the Easterners do have antigods and they do identify chaotics
as being members of the latter. In particular, the Kralori
are plagued with Huan To, who are chaotic in most people's

 > This, I think, is the main reason that the Chaos Void and the
 > Mystic Void are incompatible in actual Gloranthan cultures ;
 > with the important exception of the dragonewts, it now appears.

The Dragonewts have a Chaos void in their mythology?

>And : Is Saronil Tamaskil an inheritor of the EWF ?

No. He only knows four origins and horrors whereas the EWF would
have listed six, as does Baldrus the Black Reader of Nochet.

>I think that the issue is with the precise difference between
>Entropy (Chaos Void) and Emptiness (Mystic Void).

Careful now. The Chaotic Void and Entropy are different concepts. Entropy
is the perversion of the Silence, not the Void.

>The notion of Entropy (as an Evil force) is basically incompatible
>with Mysticism (as Transcendant Liberation from the World).

Even reading the void for Entropy, I don't think so.

- --Peter Metcalfe


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 21:14:19 EEST