From: Alex Ferguson (abf@cs.ucc.ie)
Date: Fri 19 May 2000 - 18:27:49 EEST
Loren:
> the egi might vary, but
> moonson/takenegi seems to vary independently of the makeup of the egi.
No, I disagree. Since the Egi always vary from one Mask to the next,
it's at best impossible to say that his nature varies independently,
and at first wink it seems to me unlikely, in fact.
> the ten tests don't seem to have any effect on moonson's incarnation. they
> are only taken after moonson establishes his identity with everyone who
> needs convincing.
Not so sure this is strictly true. In principle they're separable,
in practice they're somewhat all mixed up een a beeg bucket weeth
a double 'elping of paté.
> in addition, moonson/takenegi does not always appear at the center of a
> ritual summoning circle as directed by heroes, demigods, deities, the egi
> and friends. he appears in the lunar empire, so far, but that's about the
> only requirement. there's no need to assume that the egi or anyone else have
> infallible control over how and where and when he manifests.
To say that the Egi had such control would be to say very little, in
pragmo-cynical terms, though. ("The Egi will determine when the time
and place are right." "So, all bets are off, then?") At least some
of these guys are, after all, in a state of such Lunar-Orbital Mystic
Radiance that notions of having a normal conversation with them, much
less determining their precise motivation, is pretty much Right Out.
> perhaps his
> unique self chooses a form to inhabit that best fits his next life. perhaps
> the form he inhabits influences him. perhaps the coupling works both ways.
> it's not something you can determine as an observer, and it isn't something
> that moonson himself could answer meaningfully, since if he was influenced
> by his base form then error is possible and if error is possible then it's
> possible in lots of things.
Very well put.
> did moonson manifest a brand new albundi body and personality, or did he
> inhabit a pre-existing albundi body and personality, that appears to be the
> crux of the argument between Martin and everybody else.
Pretty much, I think, though as I've attempted to argue, the situation
need not be as 'crisp' a choice as that.
> this is consistent with the stories about moonson/takenegi. it is also
> different from pharoah, as pharoah's self completely suppresses the old
> self. it is also different from the emperors of kralorela, who are created
> out of whole cloth when the old emperor dies.
Created out of whole cloth only by "usual method", mind you...
*prurient sniggering* Definitely it's not the same as any of the
suggested Moonson scenarios.
> when the old emperor dies, the
> new dragon-emperor is born and the mandarins search him out. sometimes it
> takes a long time to find him and he is a retired belt-buckle salesman
> before they submit him to the tests.
Note that the new emperor isn't (at least literally) a Tibetan-style
reincarnation of the old guy, though. The latter has at this point
not merely expired, but transcended; he ain't here no more. (This
is somewhat different from boddhisattvas in the RW, who IIRC vow not
to transcend until _all_ consciousness is liberated, whereas the
Kralori geezers are a tad more modest, and are content to ferry several
centuries' worth of worthy citizens to the Summer Land Heaven, from
where they'll gain eventual release.)
I don't have a copper-engraved assurance that Darudan monks get up to
this sort of trolling around looking for their reincarnated elders,
but it seems a decent bet to me. Such persons are necessary either
not quite Mystically Advanced(TM) enough to have been liberated by
their own efforts, or more pertitently, are delaying their own progress
Onward for assorted self-sacrificing reasons (like having first refusal
on use of the temple jacuzzi).
Cheers,
Alex.
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