From: Ian Cooper (ian_hammond_cooper@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon 11 Sep 2000 - 21:26:40 EEST
This is my current take on the situation:
We know from KoS that Orlanthi clans are patrilineal.
This means that only agnatic relationships are
considered when determining the membership of the clan
(while bilateral relationships and affines might be
important to you personally, legally the clan is
defined by its patrilineal descent groups).
So if we accept this definition one answer to the
This paradox is probably not something the Orlanthi
This fits with the Icelandic analogue. From
"Several juridicial disablements also attended the
If we assume mebership based on a significant male
Do women get to vote at the wapentake in Orlanthi
problem of the membership of women before or after
marriage is to suggest that they are outside the legal
definition of the clan, because they do not figure in
its patrileneal descent group. If the clan is a net
then the men are the lines that are notted together to
form its whole, the women are the spaces, the net
cannot exist without them, but they are not part of
its structure.
think about too hard however. For when considering a
women and to whom she owes loyalty, where her honour
lies they wold probably look at her most significant
male relative (brother/father for unmarried/divorced,
husband for married, eldest son for divorced/widowed
mother, sisters eldest son for spinster with no
surviving father/brothers etc).
BloodTaking and Peacemaking by William Ian Miller:
female sex. In matters of inheritance a woman was
postponed to males in the same degree of kinship from
the decendant. She was not eligible for Thing
participation, and if she headed a household, which it
seems, was not unusual, the laws prescribed five men
who could represent the household on a panel of
neigbours: her husband, son, stepson, her daughter's
husband, and her fosterson. The legal affairs of a
woman were to be conducted by her lograthandi, or
legal guardian. If she was unmarried or widowed the
lograthandi was usually her fastnadi, the person
empowered to give her in marriage and whose agreement
was necessary for a valid marriage"
then if you asked an Orlanthi "to what clan does that
woman belong", he might reply "She is Bjorn of the
Squat Oak clan's wife" or "she is the daughter of
Hrothgar of the Greenvalley clan". In short I am
sidestepping the question of what clan a woman joins
on marriage by suggesting that the clan membership of
a woman is not of legal significance in Orlanthi
culture (though it may be of personal significance to
the woman and her kin).
society. Well it seems more equal than Icelandic
culture so I would say the answer is yes, but that the
wapentake they belong too is determined by their
husband, brother, son etc.
of course even though only agnatic relationships are
recognised in practical terms, bilateral relationships
and affines will have an impact on everyday lives.
Thoughts?
Ian
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