From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@bigfoot.com)
Date: Mon 08 Oct 2001 - 03:26:23 EEST
Julian Lord:
>JB> >Fact is that the greatness of gods has changed before, and will
> > But not through the actions of ordinary mortals or communities -
>I disagree very strongly with this. The name of the game is Hero Wars,
And this is relevant to the changing of _Great_ Gods, how? >There are also many HW plots
Which has already been discussed and dealt with on this far
> > >again.
> > Arachne Solara usually gets the blame for changing gods. I am
> > extremely dubious that an army of heroquesters could change the
> > gods and note that all previous attempts to do so have been
> > failures.
>and it's about ordinary mortals becoming Heroes and changing the cosmos
>through their actions. In fact, last time we were discussing divine
>mutability, Greg denied that the gods can change on their own, and
>hinted quite strongly that the action of mortal Heroes is the
>_only_ thing that can change them.
I know I didn't say great in the paragraph that you are
criticizing but it is responding to Joerg's statement.
>and projects that are geared to accomplish similar designs.
>The Lunar Empire's struggle against Orlanth for another example.
too long thread many weeks ago.
> > For the Lunars to control Orlanth would
> > require them to dominate Orlanth on the Great Gods plane, rather
> > than wrest a mere subcult away from him.
>Are the Lunars an exception to your statement that the actions
>of ordinary mortals or communities cannot cause such changes ?
No. I'm just pointing out what it would take to change Orlanth.
> > No, I don't think subcults can be morphed into aspects. One can
>Why not ? I'm not saying that it would be an easy task ; Ernalda
This was well before the Cosmic Compromise that fixed the Gods
That the impact of such changes would still be world-threatening.
> > worship a god as a subcult (like Redayla for Elmal or Rigsdal
> > for a number of gods). But one can't turn Vanorlanth (or other
> > subcult manifestations of Orlanth) into an aspect of him.
>was once a mere handmaiden in the house of Yelm, but now she has a
>Queen Aspect.
within the Cosmos, and upon which basis I am grounding my
statements about the immutability of the Great Gods - before
that time, my arguments do not apply.
A trivial nitpick would be that Ernalda's Queen status comes
from her being the leading goddess of the Earth Tribe. This
status she manifested during the Golden Age when all her tribe
were handmaidens of the Emperor.
>Clearly, new Aspects _can_ come into existence
>(but only through the action of mortals and their societies),
>and it seems clear that if a relevant subcult already exists
>that this would be a very good basis for such.
I have yet to see any example of a new aspect for a pre-existing
great god coming into existence in historical times. The aspects
of Orlanth are the same as they were in the God Learner times for
example.
- --Peter Metcalfe
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