From: Eric Jablow (jablow@pilot.njin.net)
Date: Wed 30 May 1990 - 09:56:33 EEST
>> is by Eric (reformated slightly)
> is by George W Harris <GHARRIS%UNC.BITNET@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu>
>> Perhaps the fetch gets a last ditch attempt to drive off the
>> possessing spirit. If the fetch is defeated, the body is
>> taken over. If the fetch wins, the spirit goes back to the
>> Spirit Plane.
>Actually, since the fetch is technically possessing the shaman's
>body in his absence, the spirit would have to drive the fetch out,
>if the spirit could manifest on the mundane plane, which i contest.
Fetches aren't ordinary spirits, in RQ3. An apprentice shaman "Summons" a fetch to him, but the fetch is actually a part of the shaman's spirit, given INT and POW and independence by the weird rituals and vision-quests of the apprentice. When the shaman travels on the spirit plane, and the fetch takes over the shaman's body, remember that the fetch naturally belongs there. Also, look at the Waha "Fix Intelligence" Divine Spell in Gods of Glorantha. If a Shaman is subjected to that Spell, his Fetch immediately takes over the body, and the Fetch can't leave it. The fetch needs an active shaman inhabiting his own body in order to leave it. If the Shaman is disabled, stunned, or enslaved, I would assume the fetch cannot leave.
>> Spirit bothering to fight off the losing shaman's fetch. I
>> would allow a Spell Spirit to attack; it's mindless anyway,
>Sorry, spell spirits cannot initiate spirit combat, which it would
>have to do to overcome the fetch.
>> and it wouldn't know any better.
Spell Spirits usually do not initiate Spirit Combat spontaneously, but they can initiate Spirit Combat. After all, the Spellteaching Divine Magic Ritual consists of a Priest summoning a spell spirit and ordering it to attack the initiate wishing to learn a spell. The Spirit is under orders, but it is, in fact, initiating the Combat.
My thought is that the Spell Spirit, having been aroused into a mindless fury by the Shaman, stays in its fury, and goes after the Shaman's body. Why and how it gets there is another matter.
>One thing that needs to be addressed is how the spirit in question
>*gets* to the shaman's body. The spirit combat is taking place on the
>spirit plane, & when the combat is over, you would *still* be on the
>spirit plane. Returning to the shaman's body thence is a non-trivial
>task . . .
Well, let's reduce this to a simpler case. Suppose the Shaman had won all his combats on the spirit plane, or even that he had done nothing there. How does he get back? It's a long trip.
I hate to drag in terms from AD&D, but one is useful here, that of the "Astral Cord". Let's assume that there is a spiritual connection between the Shaman and his Fetch, a cord connecting them, a pathway symbolized by the Mindlink they have. This should provide the road back to the mundane plane that the Shaman takes to travel back.
Now, suppose that the Shaman loses a spirit combat. The winning spirit envelops the Shaman. He perceives the pathway. Possibly, he follows it to the mundane plane, where he encounters the Fetch. Alternatively, he remains on the Spirit plane, enslaving the Shaman. Or, he breaks off contact.
>> Things get somewhat tense for the shaman and his fetch. The
>> fetch cannot expel the possessor; perhaps it can Mindspeak a
>> companion, or perhaps . . .
> Why not? actually, the fetch was there *first*, and would have to
>be expelled before the spirit could possess anything. & even presup-
>posing that a spirit *did* possess the shaman's body, well, a fetch can
>discorporate & attack in spirit combat, so why can't it do that here?
>However I think (I know, who cares what I think) that the victorious
>spirit would just have control *on the spirit plane* of the shaman's
>magic point-less spirit, while the shaman's fetch would be back home in
>the shaman's body. This does leave the shaman in quite a fix, which
>is a good reason for a shaman to know Spirit Screen 10. It would be
>possible for another shaman to attempt to find the offending spirit
>somewhere on the spirit plane & wrest the first shaman's spirit from
>it, but how he would do this I don't know.
In RQ2, when a spirit possessed a body, the original spirit was displaced. In RQ3, a possessing spirit can suppress the original owner, so that two spirits will be in the same body. If we treat the Shaman as being lost on the Spirit plane, and a denizen of the spirit plane comes after the Shaman's body, then the alien spirit will only have to beat the fetch to suppress it; if it wins, the alien spirit will hold the fetch in the shaman's body. The fetch won't have the chance to discorporate.
In either case, the connection between the Shaman and his Fetch is weakened. Remember, Mindlinks are temporarily broken by Spirit Combat (a RQ2 rule, I think), and the losing Shaman should be stunned for a while whatever happens. There's still a connection; otherwise the Shaman would be dead. It can be followed by an appropriately prepared spirit. The difficulty is that this will take some time, and the Shaman's spirit might get into worse trouble in the interim.
Spirit Screen 10 is a useful spell, but the shaman had better cast it before Spirit Combat begins. Otherwise he must succeed with two Concentration rolls (3 * INT %), as the spell takes 10 + DEX SR to cast, and this is more than one round. He must also succeed with his Spellcasting roll, and so his chance of casting the spell is at most (INT 18, POW >=19, ENC 0)
54% * 54% * 95% = 27.702 %.
All in all, I'd try another defense method.
Another shaman would find the "offending" spirit by looking at the pathway from the Fetch to the Shaman with Second Sight, and following the track. Of course, it may be hard to follow. If and when he catches up to the offending spirit, he attacks it. If he wins, he can release its thralls. But why do you call it an offending spirit? Look at it from its point of view. Who knows, perhaps they can negotiate?
How do we introduce such techniques to RQ3? We'd need the equivalent of Tracking, Scan, and Search for Spirit Plane travellers. How do we characterize a place so featureless as the Spirit Plane? What terrain does it have? What landmarks? I doubt we'll be able to fully describe this situation until we describe the Spirit Plane fully. Fortunately, we are talking about a situation that will rarely come up.
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