ranting

From: johnjmedway (jjm@zycor.lgc.com)
Date: Tue 11 May 1993 - 02:08:16 EEST



Brace yourselve, this is long, and a bit of a rant at times:

>> From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
>> Subject: On "double Entry"
>> Date: 3 May 93 16:29:22 GMT
>>
>> D.E.B. is another example of things from the modern world that
>> someone might try to sneak into Glorantha without thinking of the
>> repercussions. It reminds me of an austrailian con scenario submitted

Remember, though, that Glorantha is _not_ just Bronze Age earth. Some things will be different. Many will be similar. Differences such as book- keeping styles will change and distort commerce and culture, but not nearly so much as the pervasive magic which we are willing to accept.

>> From: timp@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Tim Posney)
>> Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 03 May 1993, part 1
>> Date: 4 May 93 18:28:07 GMT
>>
>> >From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
>> >Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 01 May 1993, part 1
>> >Date: 1 May 93 22:31:37 GMT
>> >
>> >At first I found it hard to believe that RoC had sold poorly.
>> >Why? Because every shop I know that got copies in sold out of them in
>> >a the first two days. Virgin in Manchester sold out very fast. I had

To the faithful (that's us, guys).

>> I think the poor sales of the modules represents an accumulated lack of
>> interest in Runequest by the general gaming public. Moduels like this will

Also, RuneQuest just doesn't get the display space. It's not Basements & Basilisks, it's not <INSERT TRENDY GAME NAME HERE>, it's art just isn't catchy enough (NOTE: I really liked the Sun County cover: A-, though I'd only give River of Cradles a B or B- it seems too static, and there's nothing to draw interest, like the Sun Dome on SC.).

Also most of the stuff comes in boxes. I like having boxes, but if boxes imply that the entire range get's chucked in the bookshelves w/ the "Bookcase" and other wargames, then it just won't sell. Sun County's art is not displayed, when all you see is the spine, and .5x11 inches just isn't much display space.

>> From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk
>> Subject: Being Gregged!
>> Date: 4 May 93 07:04:17 GMT
>>
>> editors but reflect the point that if five people witness a given event then
>> in the end their will be five (or six) conflicting views on what actually
>> happened.

recommended viewing: Rashomon, directed by Akira Kurosawa

>> From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
>> Subject: RQ on CD ROM
>> Date: 4 May 93 02:51:18 GMT
>>
>>
>> There is a way to raise the level of awarness of glorantha which was used to
>> hype D&D that is to write fantasy novels about it. Look how much interest the
>> Dragon Lance books generated in D&D, a couple of GOOD books set in glorantha
>> which gave a real feel for the place should create the kind of interest we need
>> ie new, young players. (Obviously you'd have to get a decent author). By the
>> way I'm not suggesting a Gloranthan Dragon Lance because they were bloody awful
>> - they should be aimed at people with a reading age of >3.

Agreed! Other _good_ games (my definition) have done this. There are two novels, printed by _real_ (well, kinda) publishers set on Tekumel (E.P.T.). They're not great, but they're decent. And they add a great deal of color and richness to the way the people live, how they think, etc.

>> From: P.A.Snow@gdr.bath.ac.uk (P A Snow)
>> Subject: Selling RQ/Glorantha
>> Date: 4 May 93 14:06:15 GMT
>>
>> I think that in order to promote the long term interests of RQ that the
>> subscribers to this list should think about the best way to sell RQ to the
>> current roleplaying market not to people like themselves who are already long
>> term fans of the system. In fact, I think that the tone of the discussion in
>> this group has at times been very self-serving when the expertise from this
>> group should be used to help develop the long time future of RQ. Altruistic

If the gloranthan die-hards, and old-timers (including me) get exactly what we want and need _for_ourselves_, we'll get it for a few months or a year. Then RQ and Glorantha will be gone, and we won't need a renaissance, we'll need a resurrection.

>> It seems to me that there are two ways to introduce background into any
>> game. There is "hard" technical background and there is atmospheric getting the
>> feel of it background that I will refer to as "soft" background. Now the desire
>> in this group for a large, comprehensive cults write up without any adventures
>> etc. is an appeal for a lot of hard background. I understand why you want this
>> because as a player of Empire of The Petal Throne I found that once I
>> understood the feel of Tekumel the S&G background books that are all just
>> background were invaluable. However, this information was not being fully used
>> or understood until I got the feel for Tekumel from reading the recent

BTW: Interesting coincidence. Rob Smith and I had a similar discussion regarding

     the background-style differences between EPT, et al and RQ/Glorantha on the 
	 same day.


What we need is a mix. Though I like Tekumel, I find the detail-orientation of the sourcebooks to be overkill. I have a better idea of what grains are eaten with which hand than I do why people believe in a God. I get very little of any big picture, which would be understood by an inhabitant of Tekumel. Most of those materials are written by a scholar in a quasi-scholarly fashion.

Instead of a creation myth, we get a science-fiction-science description of the origin of the world. Problem: that would be meaningless to any of the inhabitants of that culture. Instead of a description of the _religions_, we get a description of the _temple_ (as in organization charts, tables of priests levels, etc.) Problem: yawn....

The society is intricate in both it's creation and in it's dissection. In the end, it seems pretty lifeless.

Glorantha is a bit more type B personality.

It's all over the place. It's messy, inconsistent. There's soft background (the useful parts of Cults of Prax, Biturian's tales, What my Father Told Me,...), and there's hard stuff too (who gets which spells, all of GoG,...).

My feelings lean toward scenarios to draw in the newbies, and background through examples, stories, _anything_ but rules. Suggestion, try something like Cults of Prax again, but this time:

	Book One: The Cults - histories, theology, the essence of the religions. 
						  Add in commentary by people of different regions and 
						  religions, and paint a picture of the cult
	Book Two: Scenarios - an expanded version of Biturian's tales, with the 
                          events crafted into scenarios and scenario hooks

I'm not saying necessarily rebuild Cults of Prax, but how about doing a Cults of the Red Moon that way?

>> Adventures On Tekumel books. These books are full of soft background in
>> passages that are descriptions of walking round a city, going shopping and
>> going to a Temple etc. (The overall structure is a solo adventure that you use

One big reason that Glorantha may seem had to get is that there isn't much by way of how people live in print. We have scenarios coming out our butts, and a laundry list of cults, but how do people _live_?

Whereas the Tekumel background tells us _how_ poeple live. It just doesn't tell us why.



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