From: Nick Brooke (100270.337@CompuServe.COM)
Date: Sat 15 May 1993 - 02:01:12 EEST
Yup, I have been won over to the idea that the Lunars can't *break* their oaths; they can just avoid the bad consequences of doing so by Resurrection. Same effect, with less explanation / mechanics required.
But I still think Humakt could take a crack at Yanafal's errant cultists. After all, Yanafal doesn't really offer that much that is new. In a very real sense, he is the "Lunar Humakt", as Etyries is "Lunar Issaries" and Irrippi Ontor "Lunar Lankhor Mhy" (Goddess knows who the others were taking their lead from!). Those cult founders were worshippers of the gods named who found new and disapproved-of ways to use their deities' powers.
Yanafal's cult secrets are those of Humakt; he leads people along what is essentially Humakt's path; it seems reasonable to me that his cultists should be vulnerable to Humakt's vengeance if they blatantly abandon it. I'd extrapolate this to Irrippi, Etyries, or anyone else that gets worked out, giving a way for the divine "nature" to reassert itself when the Lunars upset the world. Think of it as like the backlash against the God Learners: another bunch of people who thought they could abuse the powers of the elder gods by using them as they thought fit, without stopping to consider whether or not it was *right* to do so.
So: Yanafali swords breaking. Etyries merchants consumed by raw greed. Irrippi Ontor sages coming down with brain fevers. All sounds plausible to me...
(Suggestions only. I'm not sure the idea should be expanded this far.
Feedback and criticism welcomed, but I'll stick by my guns on Yanafal).
> "Oh Gods what a wonderful Digest this is!" You took the words right out of my mouth!
"Humquack"? Whatever happened to the three brother-gods, Hueymakt, Deweymakt and Louiemakt? Not to mention Storm Bill the Chaos-Killer? And all their friends from "Famous Duck Deities" in Digest II.1? You'll be forgetting your own name, next <g>.
As I don't take Ducks seriously, I love this stuff!
According to Greg, the Wenelians can be seen as "half-converted Hsunchen". I've done some thinking about what this means, and will send it in to the Daily one of these weeks...
Oh, I liked Finula's two propaganda pieces, "Bad Worship" and "Orlanthi Deception". Very typical of Irrippi Ontor, I thought. Nothing in them that would show up on a "Detect Written Lie" from the Veratus sub-cult...
> Orlanth had an older brother (let's call him Humakt) who wielded > the first sword, and who got it back after the slaying of Yelm > (who earned his death rune that way...). > In the west, a sword entity (let's call him Humct) dealt in death. > Later, Arkat Humctson entered the cult of Humakt, polluted it with > western ways, and severed Humakt from his family.
The Five Sons of Umath were: Kolat, Urox, Ragnaglar, Vadrus, Humakt, and
Orlanth (count'em)?? Once Ragnaglar is cut from polite society (after the
horror of the Chaos Wars?), Humakt is grafted on to make up the numbers
(which are still important for ritual purposes?). So we don't *have* to
admit that the Broos are our distant cousins (well, closer than that for
the Poss clan, I hear!)...
That's speculation. I have no idea of the mechanics involved in this dissemination of cultural imagery. Seem plausible to anyone out there?
Beats "Sartar the Brave" or "Men of Wilmskirk" any day <g>!
> Darkness was the first element and is called the creator. > From this element all the other elements were created, > except for Moon. This was ripped from the child of Darkness, > Earth. Anyway, that is our excuse for having Darkness > opposite Moon. Any comments?
You're mad!
So were the God Learners, so maybe some of them believed this tosh <g>.
I'll run through the "orthodox" belief in case you're missing any of it
(through lack of time, or source materials, or whatever):
Darkness is traditionally the first element. (I'd say it was second, after Chaos, but that's as may be). Out of the last drop of Darkness ("Styx") pours the Water. Floating atop the Water comes the Earth. Rising above the Earth comes the Fiery Sky. Father Sky lies atop Mother Earth, and their child is Baby Storm (Umath the Destroyer), who make so much noise that his parents split up. We've now got the five elements we all know and love.
OK so far. But the origins of the Moon are very obscure: deliberately so, in fact. We have two different genealogies in Troll Gods: either she's the child of Nakala and Zaramaka (Primal Darkness and Primal Water), or else the daughter engendered when stricken Yelm's blood mingled with that of Styx. (These myths are both for the Blue Moon, which I'd suggest was in fact White in Godtime, only later shattering into Red and Blue aspects. Still, no other Moon has known parents -- as David Hall delights in pointing out -- so these are the only myths you're likely to have been working with).
So in both versions of the Moon's origin, her mother is one of the most potent Darkness thingies around. Nobody associates her with the Earth. Her other parent is given either as the Sun (explaining why she's a heavenly body?) or the Sea (explaining her power over tides?). Me, I'm more convinced by the Yelm / Styx version, but that's as may be.
Anyway, in the Second Age, why would the God Learners have any time at all for the Moon? The only one they'd have known about would be the Blue Moon, as a peripheral, sea-related heavenly body which could not be questioned or comprehended by them. Anathema to a God Learner, in fact: "the Blue Moon had no intellect" ... "while she still knows the secrets of the universe, she does not dispense them coherently".
Have another go. Working out a Rune based sorcery system sounds like a neat idea, and I'd love to see the results, *especially* if they looked Gloranthan. Though I still think we should get away from manipulative sorcery and back towards pious wizardry as the basic magical method of the West...
"A nod's as good as a wink to the Crimson Bat."
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