From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Mon 18 Oct 1993 - 22:49:22 EET
Paul writes: (X-RQ-ID: 2028)
> Many people have mentioned the revisionist history of the origins of
>Yelmalio. I will point out another example (there are hundreds, I'm sure.)
>In the Genertela Book, set in 1621, Moirades is listed as King of Tarsh.
>In King of Sartar, pages 119 & 127, Moirades is said to die in 1610 and to
>be succeeded by his son Pharandros.
> This sort of thing is irksome if one is trying to write a scenario set
>in Tarsh in the 1610's, for example.
In KoS p.147 (bottom paragraph) it says (1617 ST): "King Moirades agreed, and ordered his priests and generals to help Fazzur."
On p.152 (1625) "... King Moirades sent his own general to quell the subsequent raids.
On p.154 "The first person to react was King Moirades of Tarsh, who sent his army to seize control of Aldachur."
Only on p.157, well into 1630 ST, King Pharandros is mentioned. Mostly as brother of Estal Donge, by the way, with whom he was confined to the City of Wonders (1632) (which BTW on p.152 "disappeared from the world forever." (Winter 1624/25).
On p.28 Moirades was alive even shortly before when Mularik jumped the walls of Furthest ("The horsemen of the queen ... captured the [evil] king, and killed him.")
> What do people think? Should we take RQ material as canonical for future
>submissions? Is Glorantha splitting into two worlds, Greg's rapidly shifting
>one and the more permanent RQ Glorantha?
> Anyone have any speculation as to why Greg changed his mind on Moirades'
>death date? It seems gratuitous. The Elmal/Yelmalio changes make some
>sense, but this playing around with death dates of mortals does not seem
>'forced' by mythic considerations.
Given the evidence I gave from KoS, I doubt that he did change his mind. He gave several (possible?) timelines for the Hero Wars, check e.g. Minaryth Blue's "Events of my life" (p.211) which have the merit of coming from a contemporary sage and active member of Argrath's ring. (See the incomplete footnote 53 on p.24; I heard the rumour that the "death" was actually only subterfuge, and that the Purple Seere became the Blue Sage.)
> BTW, this is not a simple change that can be smoothed over by saying 'one
>of the scribes who wrote the Composite History of Dragon Pass got the date
>wrong'; rather, the story of Moirades and Pharandros takes several pages
>and is intimately interwoven with much of the history. Thus it is a real
>change.
My advice: Ignore the dates given on pages 119 and 127. Moirades figures prominently until ca 1630 throughout KoS with exception of these two entries. With the additional "proof" from the Genertela Book I see no reason not to let Moirades grow 72 years old.
The ascension of Pharandros as king in 1610 may be true at the same time. If we look at the Frankish kings and the Anglosaxon Kings 800 AD +- 50 years, we often find the son and heir crowned while the father still lived, to provide a smooth transition (worked almost never), and regardless of inheritance customs otherwise followed.
Temporal inconsistencies are a burden on Glorantha which predate KoS. Harrek the Berserk enters the Kingdom of Jonatela, and is transported from there into the Lunar empire, about 15 years before it is released from the Syndics' Bane, which fell in 1496 ("History of the Lunar Empire, The Fifth (or Hon-eel's) Wane" in Heroes 1.6) or in 1500 (Genertela Book).
And I am sure if we look closely, we'll find other slips as well. I'm pretty sure that at the time of writing the Genertela Book Greg didn't use the revisionist history approach deliberately (yet). I know from my own efforts on my campaign world that it is nearly imossible to avoid inconsistencies when designing a whole world incuding its history.
But I agree that we can try and create an interactive "true Glorantha pool" on the internet. Only: What about all the unlucky people without net access, or those with wildly deviating campaign histories? The "One True Way" trap seems to catch us here, too.
Joerg
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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