AOL Discussion: Prax and American West

From: Loren J. Miller (MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu)
Date: Mon 01 Nov 1993 - 07:50:11 EET



America On-line RuneQuest Chat
June 9, 1993
Logged by Loren Miller (Ekron)
Part 1: Praxians and American Indians

PRAXIAN ANALOGS WITH REAL WORLD PEOPLES

Ekron:         All right, we know that some of the praxians are
               based on native american tribes. Which ones are
               which?
Koribouros:    I never saw the Praxians as analogs of any
               INDIVIDUAL tribe, but rather a cultural
               "stereotype."
Gray:          Anyway, on to Prax and Praxians.
Gray:          The Beast Riders of Prax...
Ekron:         Sioux?

P Michaels: Iupo!
Gray:          One point you bring up is interesting actually -
               some people see these as Indians (the model favored
               by Peterson) others as Arabic desert nomads,
               dressed in long robes...
Ekron:         American indians, right? Not subcontinent?
Koribouros: Right
Koribouros: Hmm, Arab nomads... never thought about them that

               way...

Gray:          What we've seen so far makes them out to be more
               like Sioux or Crow indians...
Ekron:         Well, I always thought from the source material
               that they were arabic style nomads, not native
               americans
Gray:          Certainly would give Pavis an interesting flavor.
Gray:          Shades of Tangiers...

Koribouros:    I always thought the old cover of the RQ Companion
               portrayed them well.
Gray:          That's very Sioux - a bison rider, at least.

Ekron:         Assuming they are based on Sioux, would you be able
               to use Black Elk Speaks as source?
Koribouros:    Why not?
Ekron:         Or other authentic sioux material
Gray:          Probably a good start, at least for bison riders.
P Michaels:    Better to use Oglala Religion by William Powers. It
               describes in detail social organizations,tribal
               structures, rituals, and lots else.

Gray:          Another thing to look at would be the infuence of
               the animals they ride on their culture...
Ekron:         Are there camels in Vulture Country?
Koribouros:    Sure, the alticamellus is pretty close.
Gray:          I think camels are one of the extinct animal
               tribes...
Koribouros:    There are a lot of still-extant tribes out there
               who ride very odd beasts, though.
Ekron:         Maybe the bison riders are like oglala and
               alticamelus riders are like bedouins?
Gray:          That's not a bad idea, actually.
Ekron:         What would rhino riders be like? Tuareg, perhaps?
Gray:          Bison - oglaga, High Llama - bedouin
Gray:          Taureg sounds good.
Gray:          Impala might be Crow...

G Bailey:      Didn't all the tribes learn their ways from Waha?
               Wouldn't the teaching be the same?
Ekron:         did they learn all culture from Waha? I don't think
               so.
Gray:          No, apparantly there are a number of differences...

Koribouros:    Well, just becasue they learned the same teachings
               doesn't mean they would have to implememnt them the
               same way.
Gray:          Waha organized them, once they were already extant.
Ekron:         Are the personalities of beast riders like their
               animals? Would camel riders spit?
Gray:          I would think they would reflect them.
G Bailey:      how about that other great riding tribe, the
               Mongols?
Gray:          That's Pent.
G Bailey:      oops, that's right.
Gray:          The Pentians seem very much like Mongols.
Ekron:         I think the Mongols are like the pure horse
               tribe... and pent
Gray:          They even border on the Kralori empire...
Koribouros:    I always envisioned the racial stock of the
               Praxians to be similar to the Mongols, in
               appearacne.
PRHarmaty:     Greetings
Gray:          Discussing what Pentians and Praxians might look
               like... With Mongol and Beduin influences...
PRHarmaty:     I tend to think of Praxians as native Americans
Ekron:         We were thinking maybe prax has analogs of all the
               mounted nomads from earth...
P Michaels:    What about the non-Waha oasis Praxians?
Ekron:         Who would be the cossacks?
Gray:          Sables?
PRHarmaty:     Their relationship with animals is consistant with
               Indians' respect for their prey animals
Gray:          I like the idea of using a number of models,
               myself.
Ekron:         Foraging societies, like those in Prax, almost
               always have great respect for prey animals. It
               isn't unique to native americans
P Michaels:    I also agree with the multi-model idea.  The trick
               is in uniting them into a uniquely Praxian whole.

G Bailey:      do they curse like beduins?  what would some curses
               be?

Koribouros:    Where would the obscure ones, like the Mantis
               riders, fit in? <Groan>
Ekron:         No trolls on earth, sorry.
PRHarmaty:     Mantis riders??? A joke, yes?
Gray:          Mantis Rider of Prax - the new John Norman novel...
Koribouros:    No, there's a few obscure references to them.
Gray:          Do you mean Bolo Lizard perhaps?
Gray:          I've never seen a Praxian Mantis reference.
Koribouros:    It was only a brief mention, in one of the old
               supplements.

PRHarmaty:     I've heard about Sartarite 'sheep riding' but I
               think that falls under sexual deviations.
Koribouros:    <Groan>
PRHarmaty:     Thank you.

Gray:          Another interesting detail - Praxian knot writing.
Koribouros:    Knot-writing... an Andean reference.
Gray:          This is a written language of sorts that seems to
               specialize in directions, paths and a concept
               called 'distance from chaos'
Koribouros:    In ancient Andean cultures, they were used
               primarily as bookeeping.
Gray:          What I've seen of this makes it out to be more like
               Australian aborigine paintings.  Basically a
               language they used before time, and still use now.

Ekron:         You know most foragers in marginal areas, which
               Prax certainly is, were driven there by population
               pressures from outside. I wonder if the praxians
               really lived there as long as they claim
Gray:          Yes, apprantly.
Ekron:         Why would anybody stay that long in a dead place?
               What is so valuable to them that they don't all
               emigrate?
MarkDragon:    Isnt Prax the homeland?
PRHarmaty:     Prax was not always marginal. The 'population' of
               the better lans kept them in Prax.
Koribouros:    Where would they emigrate to?
Ekron:         Pent? Sartar? Kralorela? The Kingdom of Ignorance?

Gray:          In the Tunneled Hills, among the statues of the
               gods, there exists one of the devil herdsmen and
               his herd of creatures.
Ekron:         What's a devil herdsman or a devil herd?
Gray:          OK, ancient Gloranthan myth... There were the tribe
               of law and the tribe of chaos. The Brithini are the
               descendants of the tribe of law, the Praxians the
               tribe of chaos. Tell it to a Storm Bull and he'll
               cut your head off <g>.
Ekron:         Is this a recent revelation or did GS tell it to
               you?
Gray:          No, unpublished stuff.

IrishSpy:      Wouldn't they emigrate to Holy Country?  (Except
               for the Lunars hanging around)
Gray:          Part of the reason they stay there is the Paps.
Koribouros:    I think the Lunars hanging around would be the
               problem :)
Gray:          The Paps are their great sacred ground. That's why
               they allowed the Lunars to remain on the plains of
               Prax.
Koribouros:    Besides, isn't the holy country a mostly farming
               area?  Not neccesarrily a good place for herds.

Ekron:         I'm just acting as devil's advocate, but... The
               sahara desert was apparently at one time the cradle
               of humanity ruined by overcultivation. Do we stay
               there?
Gray:          I think comparing Prax and the Wastes to the Sahara
               is a mistake.
G Bailey:      I don't Prax is a desert, more like the American
               plains of the 1800's.
Koribouros:    ...by legend and example.
IrishSpy:      Prax strikes me more as the American Southwest
P Michaels:    Specifically, Prax is mostly chapparel,filled with
               stands of woody shrub thickets 1 to 4 meters high.
Gray:          Even the Sahara and Gobi have human inhabitants,
               nevertheless. Right, I think the American SW is a
               better model. Prax in particular is considered
               paradise by the animal nomads.
Gray:          They call Pent the land of false plenty, because it
               is only good half the year around. However, the
               Wastes look much more like the Gobi or Sahara...
               And many of the tribes live there.
PRHarmaty:     SW U.S. is too harsh.
PRHarmaty:     The native Americans thought the great plains were
               a desert untill they discovered the horse.
Koribouros:    Of course, that implies that someday, someone will
               find out just how fruitfull the plains of Prax
               could be to farmers...
PRHarmaty:     Agreed.
Gray:          The area around the Paps is supposed to be
               incredibly fertile...
Ekron:         So if someone brought Genert back there might be a
               land rush?
Gray:          There are some trying to reassemble Genert. Not
               doing too well, though...
Koribouros:    You'd think the Issaries would have at least made
               some progress by now.
Gray:          The problem is that there is a lot of opposition.
P Michaels:    From who?
Gray:          The Wastes are the home of chaos as well...
P Michaels:    Where is the growing ground?
Gray:          In the Krajalki Bogs....

Ekron:         Then maybe we should just use native american
               models for praxians. Navajo, Zuni (for the
               rituals), Oglala, Crow, Nez Perce, etc...
Gray:          I think you might look at what tribes inhabit Prax
               more than the Wastes and model those more after
               American Indians, and the Waste dwellers more after
               bedouins and Mongols. With some crossover...
PRHarmaty:     Sweat lodges, sun dances, et al make great rituals
               for Praxians. Cleansing body and soul.
Koribouros:    The Yelmalians might complain about the sun
               dances... :)
PRHarmaty:     Who pays attention to the Sun Domers?
Koribouros: Hey! I resemble that remark! From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 02 Nov 1993, part 2 Precedence: junk

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 01:32:03 EEST