From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com)
Date: Fri 05 Nov 1993 - 07:20:06 EET
Sandy Petersen is here.
Nick Brooke sez:
> When you have a densely populated agricultural region that runs
> things the Old Way and is ruled by someone they call Pharoah ...
> why should we make trouble for ourselves explaining Aztec Pharoahs?
Okay, I'm sold.
re: Chaos Wastes
Even Vulture's Country isn't outright dunes. You don't get Sahara-type stuff until the Copper Sands, which is completely unlivable. Vulture's Country is desert, but not just endless wastes of sand. Once past the Copper Sands you get into stuff much like Texas or the Great Basin -- perfectly livable, if bleak. Of course, it looks horrible to someone from Sartar, which is fertile and green like England or Germany. I was raised in Utah, and I know how easy it is for a non-native to be stunned by a few simple things like the lack of trees or year-round flowing water, and think that this must be a howling desert.
David Dunham sez:
The long association of Lhankor Mhy and Issaries leads me firmly to one of two possible conclusions. ONE: absolutely, since Issaries priests saw the utility of written contracts. TWO: absolutely not, since Issaries priests saw the danger of written contracts.
Colin Watson sez:
> Sure, Kyger Litor could transmute a Man into Darkness, say, to
> facilitate his escape from a cell (his runes are Man & Darkness
> after all); but if the Man has a lung full of sea-water at 15
> fathoms then he'd have to be rather inventive when calling on KL.
> And when Hewie the Troll dies I don't think he'll spring back to
> life just because Kyger Litor turns the lights off and on.
Hmm. Apparently Colin saw through my attempted scam in arguing that any god could do almost anything. Okay, how's this? Since Water is the spawn of Darkness, Kyger Litor can fix up the poor sap at 15 fathoms. When Hewie the troll dies, Kyger Litor can bring him back to life in her role as a goddess of the Under world, no?
An inventive GM can think up some excuse for almost any god to do almost anything. If the GM isn't inventive, and he wants a DI to succeed, I feel he should be permitted to do so. In any case, when my characters DI, they rarely are too specific as to what they want. If one of them was drowning at 15 fathoms, he wouldn't ask to be able to breathe, or to swim, or to be teleported away, he'd just say, "Kyger Litor, save me!" And leave it up to the Goddess as to the technique used. Presumably the GM could think up whatever he needed at that point. Of course, if the player's god is someone unreliable like Eurmal, he's hosed.
> Some gods are more appropriate than others for particular DI
> effects
Hard to argue with. I agree wholeheartedly with your theory that the ability to DI to associate cults is a good incentive for lay membership.
Geoff Gunner sez:
> The person will choose, if they have the luxury of choice, the
> deity that fits their mental attitude. If (he) is pacifist
> Orlanthi then that will be Chalana Arroy, completely irrespective
> of how powerful the spells that can be gained are.
Excellent summary. Seconded.
G. Fried sez:
> Does this mean that Ompalam is an aspect of Wakboth, Chaos as moral
> evil? In the sense that Thed is the Chaos god of ... rape? Is
> slavery in Glorantha a NATURAL moral evil in the way that, say,
> incest is -- one that Wakboth preys upon in order to break in upon
> the world?
I have always felt that there are certain Gloranthan gods that are evil, yet not chaotic. Ikadz, god of torture; Malia, mother of disease; and Ompalam, god of slavery are all clearly evil, yet not Chaotic (incidentally, Malia's non-chaoticness is another argument for the ability of someone to purge themselves from chaos, though technically she did it before Chaos had entered the world).
Thed is the goddess of rape, Krarsht the goddess of secret combinations, and Krjalk the god of treason. They are all chaotic, yet this does not mean that someone committing one of these acts is automatically tainted by chaos. I suspect Thed would be goddess of rape, even were she not chaotic.
I do think that doing Bad Things (rape, murder, torture) disrupts the world's order, and makes it easier for Chaos to break in. Let's not forget that Zorak Zoran and Storm Bull were major causes of the Lesser Darkness, and hence are partially responsible for the ultimate entry of Chaos into the world.
I like your dogmatic Yelmian comment. It would have Orlanthi seething with fury. Just right. I must have someone say that in MY campaign.
re: Vormain
As one of the responsible parties behind Vormain, I now state that I had no thought of Melnibone when we were discussing it. Japan, yes. There's nothing wrong with using Melnibone there, of course.
re: Beast Valley
The Beasts are supposed to be relics of EWF. The surviving Beast Men in Pamaltela are relics of the Six-Legged Empire, and it's not impossible that the Six-Leggers learned how to do it from the EWF.
> Yelm is killed by Orlanth at "mid-day" above Dara Happa. Go West
> from there, and you'll find nary a native solar deity.
Wow! What a great insight! It can't be coincidence. Greg must hear about this.
Paul Reilly asks what the Brithini believe about other humans.
> (Aldryami are vicious) Look at the Gloranthan future for Fronela -
> the Aldryami plan a mass genocide of humans.
What other kind of genocide is there? :)
There's also the dire jungle wars in Pamaltela, when the forest threatened to overgrow the plains. There are still wars in Onlaks between human and elf.
Graeme A. Lindsell asks about slavery in Genertela, and wonders about slaves in Loskalm and Kralorela.
I'd forgotten about Loskalm. Not sure whether they permit slaves or not, but I bet it's frowned on, and the slaveowners thought of as Big Jerks. The Kingdom of War, with its diabolic serf-based culture would serve as a fine example to Loskalm to NOT have slaves. Kralorela might not have many slaves, but I'm sure there are a few, and I bet the culture's not opposed to it.
"The Orlanthi have let the Thrall status fall out of practice in Dragon Pass." Even if this statement is a lie, it's clear that, if they still have Thralls, they're embarrassed about it. So they're opposed to slavery. The Ralios Orlanthi don't have lots of thralls, but the status exists. It's considered an especially noble deed to have no slaves, if you're rich. So noble that most clan leaders and rich folks keep their slaves.
re: Ompalam
Ompalam is not seen as a separate natural force in Genertela. The fact that he is PERSONALIZED in Pamaltela indicates the fact that he is not accepted.
Ompalam is a major deity in Fonrit, but not elsewhere in Pamaltela as most people regard him as evil. Even in Fonrit, some people admit his evil, though most say he is a necessary evil, just as American slaveowners thought owning slaves was good, but looked down on the guys who actually traveled to Africa and brought 'em back alive.
Ompalam's worshipers consist of slaveowners and slaves. The slaves are involuntarily brought into the cult, of course. Ompalam does not make slavery tolerable, he makes it effective. He provides magic and skills that keep slaves firmly under control. The "addictive" god of Fonrit, who is sought after by slaves who "want to make their lives less horrible" is Gark the Calm.
I don't think slavery is necessary in Genertela for anyone to survive. A free man can plow ground just as easily as a slave. I think that slavery in Genertela, as on Earth, is the result of wicked men seeking dominance over other men. The only advantage slavery offers in agriculture is that you can pay your workers very little. But you can do that anyway if you have serfs.
re: Auld Wyrmish
In conversations with Greg, he has opined that the dragonewts use sight, sound, touch, and Empathy in their conversations with one another. Full empathy being rare among humans, it's hard to learn the language.
Colin Watson sez:
> I like the idea that sorcerers should specialize to some extent,
> but the RQIII sorcery rules don't give much motivation for
> specialisation
I have had many sorcerers in my campaigns, and I've got to admit that most of them specialized. One commented to me that the RQ III rules forced him to do so. We found that a sorcerer who specialized and disciplined himself to only learn a certain set of related spells was much more powerful than one that just picked up the "good" spells.
Thom Baguley mentions the advantages of an electromagnetic sense for Dwarfs.
What a fine idea! Much more logical than infravision.
Thom also sez:
> It would seem natural to me that certain holy sites should be able
> to furnish powerful magic even if only a few dedicated initiates
> were present
Another famed advantage of holy sites is that it is easier (or only possible) to summon certain spirits there. There might be other, subtler magics, too. The fact that people prefer to marry at the Pairing Stone has always implied to me that there is some kind of harmonious effect which tends to make the marriage happier/less likely to divorce.
The Paps not only has enough worshipers for a great temple, but it has at least shrines for all sorts of tiny little gods, and even minor temples for some. There are gods who are ONLY worshiped in their one single temple at the Paps,
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 01:32:06 EEST