From: Colin Watson (watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk)
Date: Thu 02 Dec 1993 - 15:44:42 EET
No, not perpendicular planes but *perpendicular dimensions* which describe a *single plane*.
>If your model was true, then you could only enter god-time at one point.
I disagree. Assume, once more, that RealTime is the X direction; GodTime is Y. Usually mortals are only concerned with the X coordinate of their time-vector. The Y coordinate is undefined. Non-HeroQuesting mortals have no will or perception in GodTime and wander blindly and ignorantly through it (just as Gods have no free-will and limited perception in RealTime). I reckon that the HeroQuest ceremony sets up the Y coordinate and defines the "arrival point" in GodTime and fixes the direction of the vector (thus giving the Hero perception in GodTime and the will to affect things). (How this actually works I'm not sure; for the moment we'll call it magic:). When the Questing finishes, the hero's perception of his Time vector naturally tends to snap back into it's original X-only direction, resuming where it left off.
>But you can enter it on any point.
Agreed.
>So the model only holds if there is 'time' in god-time.
Quite so. (But this is a basic premise, not a derived conclusion.)
This is where I have trouble. If there is really *no time* in godtime then
nothing can happen there. No events can occur. Nothing can change. The
gods could not *do* anything.
The myths all describe the actions of the gods before Time so I assume
that there was some subjective time in which to perform these actions. Ok,
it's not the same as mortal Time (RealTime), but it's still time (with a
small "t"). Change requires time.
>So god-time is more like the page that you've drawn your vector of time on.
>No matter how long the vector, still only one page.
The page is the plane described by the two temporal dimensions, RealTime & GodTime.
>Anyway, you can't compare the two as they aren't of similar qualities.
They only seem different because we're not used to more than one temporal dimension. Just like a fourth spatial dimension would seem bizarre. I think comparing GodTime and RealTime is just like comparing length with width.
>And this business about 'time _TRAVEL_' - travel implies movement though a
>medium. If you want to travel spatially, you have to move through the spatial
>dimensions (even if you jump). So why shouldn't the same be true for time
>travel ? So imagine the consequences - travel forward and you'd be like a
>statue for the next n years to all curious bystander.
True if there is only one temporal dimension. But if you have two or more temporal dimensions then you can cheat by "stepping around" the future. Thinking spatially: one spatial dimension is a line. If you want to move from A to B on that line you have to pass through all points between (this is analogous to the statue problem with time travel which you noted above). If, however, you have a second dimension which you can move into then you can step sideways from A (moving off the line); move parallel to the line for a while; then step back onto the line at B. As far as the one-dimensional plebs on the line are concerned, you just teleported! Using this idea with temporal dimensions you get classic time-travel ala Bill & Ted, Terminator et al.
>Back would be a bit of
>a problem as you could't enter the spatial area where you started your journey
>from, because you would occupy it up to the moment when your journey started.
This is exactly the problem of time travel in the real world, where (to my knowledge) there is only one temporal dimension to play with. My impression of Glorantha is that it has (at least) two temporal dimensions which make time travel feasible (but still rather hard).
>Bah mint humbug. So it's looking at things too technically. Well, why not.
>Where do you draw the line ? Saying 'it's magic so there's no explanation'
>is godawful for a player.
Yeah, I agree, this should only be the last line of defence.
___
CW.
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