From: Colin Watson (watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk)
Date: Mon 06 Dec 1993 - 20:40:29 EET
Quite. But they are *qualitatively* similar.
This is the problem with interactions between RealTime and GodTime:
I assume diviners will hope to contact their deities "late on" in GodTime,
ie. towards the end of GodTime (whatever *that* means) because this is
when the god will know most stuff. He will have had all his GodTime
experiences etc. and he will also have received all the worship/sacrifice
from mortals that he's likely ever to receive. This includes all the times you
will sacrifice to him for rune magic. To him in GodTime these are *past
events*. In RealTime they are *future events*, but in GodTime they have passed
already so the god is not violating the compromise.
That's the problem.
RealTime & GodTime are meant to be seperate temporal realities, but when you
go interacting with a diety you create events which occur in both times.
Only actions which happen concurrently in RealTime & GodTime have this problem
(this includes sacrifices for Divine Magic, and also Divine Intervention).
I don't like it, but that's how it seems to me.
>This also creates the problem
>of foreknowledge for the GM. By your interpretation, I can ask my
>god how much magic I have / will cast for him for all Time. What
>happens if the character then dies the next game? (I suppose you
>can weasel out of it by claiming the existance of multiple
>incarnations... still, the correct sequence of questions and events
>could create a paradox.)
Good point. There are many problems with this setup. The way I see it is that
the future of Glorantha is not fixed any more than it's past is. The past
can be changed by HeroQuests; and so can the future. The answers which a
god gives you can be absolutey True one day but rendered invalid the next.
So what little your God can tell you about the "future" is about as useful
as what he can tell you about the past: ie. it's definitely True now,
probably True tomorrow too, but it's liable to change without warning sooner
or later.
All divinations should carry a disclaimer. ;-)
>
>This also creates the problem that if my character was, or ever
>will be a Rune Lord, why can't I ask for divine intervention now?
Now that's a damn good question.
Conversely, just because I was a Rune Lord yesterday, why should I be
considered a Rune Lord today?
This is the problem with Gods who live in a separate time.
>When dealing with a diety, you are always contacting him at a fixed
>time frame.
Yes, and like I said earlier, diviners would prefer this to be as late in GodTime as possible. (But do they get any choice?).
>In the games our GM runs, we have met dieties from a time
>before we started worshiping him.
Hmm, this sounds like your GodTime is parallel to RealTime rather than perpendicular. ie. Each point in your GodTime maps to a point in RealTime; which means that GodTime and RealTime are actually the same temporal dimension (separated spatially I suppose). This way you can say whether a RealTime event happened before or after a GodTime event. I prefer to think that GodTime and RealTime are truly separate temporal dimensions ie. they are perpendicular. In this case you *can't say* whether a RealTime event (eg. you joining a cult) occurs before or after a GodTime event (eg. you meeting your god on the GodPlane). But it does throw up an awful lot of strange phenomena which seem to conflict with the RQ rules. :-(
>Using this interpretation, divination contacts the diety
>at a fixed time time reference, which we generally refer to as "now".
>This is important, by the way, since a god such as Nysalor cannot be
>contacted thru worship or Divination, since he is dead. You cannot
>contact Nysalor, except thru heroquests. By your interpretation,
>the current state of a diety is irrelevant, since you are contacting
>him in Godtime (clearly, Arkat didn't remove Gbaji from all Time,
>since he can be found on the Heroplane).
Ahh... I wasn't aware of the status of Nysalor. If this is the case (ie. you really can't call for divination from him even though he is only dead in RealTime, but still exists in GodTime) then this kinda suggests that my theory about divination letting you perceive GodTime is, in fact, a load of old bollocks. Shame, I liked it.
Anyway, how do you know that Divination to Nysalor won't work, unless you try?
>Why not say a heroquest is making God-time Immanent (ie. *now*).
Yes indeed. I imagine that HeroQuesting shifts the Hero's perception and freewill so that he is aware of GodTime and capable of effecting changes in it. At the same time his will & perception in RealTime become restricted (like the Gods'). I reckon all mortals exist in GodTime concurrently with RealTime but are normally unaware of it and incapable of affecting it.
[...and later...]
>To the observer inside time, it appears that
>this has always been the case; the observer outside of time can see that
>this new reality only occurs from a certain point along the tapestry of time.
But who can observe from outside time?
___
CW.
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