Initiation etc, Reply to Sandy.

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From: Alex Finally persuaded mailtool to put his name in the header Ferguson (alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Sun 10 Apr 1994 - 20:52:59 EEST

the Sandy in question wrote:
> Alex F. comments:
> >But note that if you're a 15 year old, trying to join a religion
> >other than that of your parents', your chances aren't great.

> I don't think many 15 year olds try to join religions other
> than their parents'. This would be as abnormal as seeking a career
> other than your parents'.

I agree, and I earlier made just this comparison myself, while moaning at the Low Initiation lot. I don't, however, believe that the consequences of attempting to do so should be as dire as having a 90% chance of not being accepted as an Adult member of the clan. Unless, that is, the whole clan insists on the worship of a _particular_ diety, in which case, tuff.

> I say this knowing full well that my own church is largely
> composed of converts -- but not many of them were converted at the
> age of 15!

I don't think joining an Orlanthi (say) cult other than one`s parents' is really any kind of `conversion' in our modern sense. After all, the cults are non-exclusive, unlike most earthly and all monotheistic religions. It is indeed much more like choosing another `job', or path in life.

Another possible fudge would be to say that if one has a parent in a "closely enough" (see previous hand-waving on this subject) associated cult, then this is good enough for a `free' initiation. For example, Initiation into Orlanth on the strength of an Ernaldan parent, or vice versa. Just a thought.

> [female broos `not natural']

I don't think the statement in _KoS_ that all broos are male is very definitive. Firstly, this is mythology, after all, and secondly, everyone knows that an Orlanthi `all' means 85%, neatly tallying with the _Tales_ suggested numbers. Me, I'm in the "Only another Broo would care" camp.

> One more point in defense of the ol' Invisible God -- all his
> wizards are SUPPOSED to be good, and this holds true for all his
> sects except the Brithini (the Vadeli, of course, are not Malkioni).
> Of course, there's plenty of bad wizards anyway. But a theistic
> priest of a bad god, such as Zorak Zoran, gives you no such
> assurance.

Colour me morally relativistic, but I think speaking glibly of "bad gods" in any absolute sense makes no more sense on Glorantha than on Earth. With the (partial but substantial) exception of Chaotic deities, no god's worshipper thinks of himself, or his god as being "bad" or "evil". If a Zorak Zorani thinks his priest is morally suspect, it'd be because he wasn't sufficiently zealous in his persecution of Chaos, or is soft on these Inherently Evil light-worshipping types, not because he engages in activities most humans would find utterly despicable.

> Guy Robinson sez:
> >Prehaps the salvation of the Orlanthi will be the mobilization of
> >the lands of the Invisible God once the insubstanciality and as well
> >as the invisibility of the Invisible God is exposed.

> Apparently you're unaware that the Malkioni are hostile to the Lunar
> Empire, and see it as a rebirth of the evil Gbaji Empire (which
> flourished in the same area and also supported chaos).

I think we should be more precise here: the Kingdom of Loskalm is certainly likely to be hostile to the Lunars, or at least will be once they come into intimate physical contact. (Charg is still 'in the way'.) On the other hand, the Brithini and Seshnegi may well be pretty apathetic to/underinformed about the Lunar empire, and the Boristi and Galvosti might just lurve them to pieces.

> I submit that
> apostate Malkioni who no longer believed in their god would be LESS
> hostile towards the Lunars and also less effective.

Oh, I dunno. Did we ever come to a collective guess on how pro-/anti-Lunar the cult of Invisable Orlanth is? (Not that IO worshippers are necessarily converts from Malkionism.)

Alex.

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